Laura Beavin-Yates - Full Episode

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soleil-rain_2_09-06-2024_142132: [00:00:00] Hi Adam,

adam-manilla_1_09-06-2024_132133: Hey, Soleil.

_1_08-08-2024_161639: Hi, Jenny,

jenny_1_08-08-2024_181638: Hello.

Soleil: Hi, Linda.

Linda Melone: How are you, Soleil?

Soleil: Hi, Erika.

Erika Manilla: Hello.

video1817824343: Hi, Eddie. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. And you

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Soleil: Dr. Laura Bevin Yates is a marketing and neuroscience powerhouse, helping shape the future of emotional fitness through data storytelling and strategy. With a background in behavioral neuroscience and a passion for mentorship, she spent her career guiding brands and people toward real scalable impact from startup [00:02:00] growth to career pivots.

Laura brings the science of human connection into everything she does. Laura, I'm so excited to talk to you today about your story and what you do and just what brings you your spark. What were you like growing up and when did you first realize you were curious about how people think, feel, and act?

Laura Beavin-Yates: I love that, and thank you so much, sly, for, for inviting me here today. Um, I, whew. What was I like as a kid? Uh, I was rambunctious. I was very outgoing. My parents used to say that I never, uh, there was never a stranger for me. So everyone that I met, I would immediately approach. Um. Very extroverted, like I said.

And also, unfortunately now I, I kind of, I think of it as, so I grew up with, my niece and nephew are very close in age to me. My niece is, uh, only a year younger. My nephew is only a few years younger, and it was the three of us. And then my best friend who I met when I was five. And I was always kind of [00:03:00] the, conspire.

Uh, was always the one who was coming up with like, the things that we should do and encouraging other people to do them first, much to the dismay. And I hear many stories now about, you know, I got my niece to eat cat food, which I'm still paying. Um, for my friend Angie jumped off of a, um, a, a play thing that we had anyway, so yeah, I was very curious as a child and always wanted to kind of see these new things and these add these new ideas, but always, um. almost the leader in encouraging others to do those things. Um, it's interesting because I, I think about, you know, I've thought a lot about kind of my journey in life and when I, so we, my parents and I, when I was five, moved from North Carolina to, uh, Southern Indiana and we were about an hour from my grandparents, and we often would be driving to visit them. I, I remember being a kid and when we would be driving to visit my, my grandparents looking at houses that we were passing and [00:04:00] just wondering the people who lived in those houses were like, and just having this curiosity about, huh, I wonder how this person's life differs from my own and what their experiences are and what their home looks like.

And, and then fast forward to high school and, um. was, you know, the, I think the curiosity always continued to exist and, um, but I, I took an anatomy and physiology class and I, I remember in the class day one, Dr. Fairchild was our teacher, and he goes through the syllabus and he is talking about how at the end of the class we're going to have to dissect, uh, you know, a fetal pig.

And I was like, there is no way, no way that I'm going to do this. I cannot, I am a bleeding heart. I love animals. Like I just can't, I will not survive this assignment. So I approach him and I tell him this, and he is like, well, I hear you. And if we, that happens at the end of the class, if we get to that point and you still feel the same, we'll find something else for you to do.

Right. [00:05:00] During the class, he happened to show a video, which was a video about this guy finna gage. And this video is like, I feel like life solidifying for me. In fact, I did a social media video about this. PHUs Gage was a railroad worker back in the 18 hundreds, and he basically was responsible for hammering in, um, these, what they call tamping irons, to basically drill a hole that then they would put an explosive in so that they could explode the ground to lay the railways. And PHUs Gage happened to be hammering in a, uh, an explosive, and the explosive went off and it basically impaled him. The rod, the tampering rod went up through his cheekbone and came out through his frontal lobe, it lodged in there. He stayed conscious the entire time, like while the, this horrible accident happens.

He's got a rod sticking out of his brain. He's fully conscious his coworkers get him in this, uh, [00:06:00] you know, get him in this buggy and they wheel him into town. Stays conscious the entire time, survives the accident, and ends up with a complete personality change. And so like I remember watching this video and being like just in complete awe of the fact that he could survive this thing that went through his brain, which our brain is so important for our body and everything.

And I really honestly feel like that solidified my fascination with understanding humans, understanding the brain and what drives us. And of course, by the end of that class I was like, gimme the scalpel. I'm ready to go. Right? Because I was so excited and inspired. So yeah, it feels like, you know, I've always again had that kind of innate curiosity, but PHUs Gage, I, PHUs Gage, and Dr.

Fairchild to thank for the whole journey to where I am now.

Soleil: what was it that like specifically interested you about that? Was it the fact that it could, like was it the anatomy portion of it? Was it the neuroscience portion of it? How his [00:07:00] personality changed? Or was it that, that understanding of getting into somebody else's, you know, personal world.

Phineas is gage's personal world and you know, this is, he's now a completely different human, like you were saying, like I used to look into these people's houses and wonder what their life was about and kind of wondering what Phineas Gage's life was about. What was it that interested you about that?

Laura Beavin-Yates: I, you know what's interesting? I haven't really thought much about that, but I expect, I think that it, it, it's kind of twofold. Number one, I was, I was so amazed and in awe about the fact that like we had learned that the brain was really important for everything that we do. And of course, when I was, you know, a high schooler and anatomy and physiology, we only briefly touched on the brain. Um, I think that was part of it. I also think this element of personality change and understanding person had a drastic personality change after damage to his brain. Made that connection to me of how important the brain was. And it's really interesting because I think I've always been [00:08:00] inspired by understanding what motivates humans.

And I think I've always had this, I ironically, I didn't take psychology when I was in high school, so I didn't have an opportunity to really figure out, oh my gosh, wait, this is the thing, you know? Um. And what I was fascinated by understanding, so I actually ended up applying to, um, the University of Illinois.

'cause I grew up in Champaign for a degree in physiology. Because to me, anatomy wasn't connected enough. Anatomy is like, okay, I know what's in the body. I know maybe these things, these muscles move together to help us move. But physiology felt more like, what is everything? How does it all connect in a way that our whole body is like, you know, that's, that's driving decision making and things like that. And this is partly where my parents were super incredible. My mom, she learned how to fly when she was 17. She had her first child at 16, like she was a powerhouse herself. She didn't go to college, didn't even finish high school. And then became [00:09:00] an incredible businesswoman with a pilot's license who flew airplanes and helicopters.

Just incredible story. And my dad was,

Soleil: Badass. That's awesome.

Laura Beavin-Yates: like, I mean, just

Soleil: I.

Laura Beavin-Yates: again, super, like I'm still in awe of her and, and you know, I, I want to write a book on her at some point because she's just, she did so many things and my dad was this super kind, connected human who just was always, they both were very good about saying, you can do whatever you want in life.

We're always here. We're, you know, and, and that's, I, I have taught, um, so I, I used to teach interest psychology and various other courses at community college and that element telling young individuals that you can do whatever you want and that you are supported and that if you are passionate and driven, you can, you can achieve things is so important. And so many, unfortunately, young people don't have that. So that's something I've always, that, that I try to continually do in life now. But I'm lucky that my parents told that to me and [00:10:00] encouraged me and built me up and. allowed me, I think, to have that curiosity and want to explore. But the, the challenge is neither of my parents, uh, again, my mom didn't have a high school degree.

My dad had taken a couple college classes, but they neither had really done the college thing. And so I wasn't as intentional as I could have been through my kind of college career we'll say. So I was a physiology major again, originally applied for that. Showed up on day one and they're like, oh, we don't have that anymore.

And I was like, well, shit. Sorry. I don't know if I can say that here, but what do I do now? Okay. You know, so they put me in this BioTrack and I had to take molecular and cellular and integrated biology and. Integrative is more about the world and the earth and the planet, which I'm passionate about, but I didn't want to study it.

At the time, molecular and cellular was so at the ground level. So, um, just deep that I, I, I really struggled. I was having a hard time connecting that at the cellular level all the way up to what moves us, you know? And it's like, yes, cells have such an [00:11:00] impact on, but I just, there was this connective bit that was a challenge. And so ultimately I wasn't getting the best grades. And I found myself at a place where I'd always done well academically. And my plan was to go into pre-med and I was like, oh, what do I do? Like I can't, I can't continue in a program where I'm not getting, where I'm getting like C's. That's just not me. And I'd taken a couple psych courses and all of a sudden was like, wait, I took a cognitive psychology course that talked about what drives our decision making and our memories and all these things, and that was like a light bulb and. I joke that if neuroscience had been a more common degree when I was an undergrad, I had at least been exposed to it in some way, that would've been the exact degree I got and I would've gone directly there.

But again, I think kind of a little bit of a lack of knowledge where, not for anyone's fault, I just didn't, you know, I, I kind of with this kind of circuitous, like non-linear path to then finally figuring out, wait, [00:12:00] cognitive psychology helps me really understand what's happening in the brain and body and what's driving all these different things. And it allows me to understand how people behave. But also when brain damage happens, what are the, you know, what, what, what are the results of that? And then it, it was like when we were first starting to understand damage in this place lets us understand. I mean, we were knowing like, damage here leads to x and I was taking classes.

Learning about damage to a certain area can eliminate your ability to form new memories. Whoa. That's crazy. You know? So anyway, that was kind of a long explanation to say like, I think it was a combination of like wanting to really understand these connective elements and what moves us as humans, but also caring about that aspect of how we're different and why and what really motivates

Soleil: Hmm.

Laura Beavin-Yates: you know?

And then figuring out, wait from that one video, the brain can completely, something happening to it can completely change who we are. Made me realize early on, without maybe putting all the pieces together, that the [00:13:00] brain is where it starts, and the brain is what matters. To really understand humans, you know?

Soleil: Isn't it so funny how we can look back, you know, hindsight's 2020 vision and say, you know, I, I can look back and I can see how important marketing has been in my personal life. You know, like how athletic, like athletics specifically has played like different tiny roles in my life that now that I can look back at it and be like, oh, that kind of makes sense why I'm interested into the thing that I'm interested in today.

And that's why I'm kind of wanting to lean in this direction. I mean, hindsight's 2020 vision. And so for you particularly, can you bring me more into what that was like moving past college and how neuroscience started playing a role past that point?

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah, and, and you're absolutely right. So it's interesting, you know, with the hindsight being 2020, it's like I've only realized, I think as I've gotten a little bit older and started thinking about my path and mentoring and [00:14:00] coaching, and it's helped me recognize those pivotal points and the connective tissue between the different things that I've had and how I've kind of built on things where it felt maybe non-linear, but it's like, but really there was this. Consistent motivating element, you know, and it's, it's really interesting thinking a lot of the, so I don't wanna jump too far ahead and make sure I fill in the gaps of like post-college, but it, it's interesting because the work that I'm doing now, we're often talking to people about the fact that we think we know about our current experience as I'm experiencing it right now as a cognitive conscious, sentient human, we think that we understand what's going on in our brain.

But no better am I able to know how my brain is processing this experience in real time than I am my liver processing the lunch that I had earlier. Right. And that's part of the challenge when it comes to, part of the overwhelm, honestly, when it comes to thinking about a career pivot or how, you know, for young, for when I [00:15:00] talk to students who are just graduating, I'm like, you don't have to have it all figured out.

Nobody has it all figured out. The best thing you can do in life actually, is to continue to be curious and to. Recognize when something is speaking to you, and to pull that close and find the way to foster it and fold it into what you're already doing. And then you ultimately, it kind of feels like you find your way. then it's only when you look back to say, oh, this all made sense when I think about, you know? So, um, it is funny because really, again, in the stories that I, I, you know, the story I tell when I think back. So I, when I, when I was an undergrad and I had committed to psychology and specifically was interested in cognitive psychology, like when I switched my major, I remember, 'cause my dad had taken a few classes right?

In college and I went home and I was like, I'm changing my major to psychology. And they were like, what? Why you are gonna go pre-med? And I'm like, well, yeah, but, and they were like, but you know that [00:16:00] psychology requires graduate school, right? And I was like, I don't care. I'm fascinated by this. I wanna learn.

I don't care. Like this is what is calling me. You know? Um. Cognitive psychology. When I was, I was volunteering in a, uh, research lab when I was an undergrad that was specifically focused on, um, intergrade amnesia. So someone who has sustained brain image that renders them unable to form new memories. So people may have seen the movie 51st dates, they depict this in Lucy ten Second Tom, not completely accurate depictions in either sense.

Ten second Tom's a little bit closer actually to what happens. But imagine you do not have an ability starting now to ever create a new memory. That's wild. Right. And I was just so fascinated again by this. Complete change in life and how these people, you know, you have to adapt and figure out. Um, and we were, the way we were studying this is we had people come in and we were exposing them to these facial expression or fa uh, faces, um, and basically using eye tracking.

And we did an initial [00:17:00] exposure for these people had sustained damage. And then after the fact, had 'em come back in. And in theory, they should not be able to form memories for these spaces because of their amnesia. But we were using eye tracking actually to look, to see is there recognition that's happening?

They may not be able to verbally state that they actually recognize this person, but are their eyes going to the people that they've seen showing this implicit recognition element? I think, so I, it's interesting my involvement, my involvement there catalyzed me then when I went to grad school to study memory.

But I was studying memory and aging because I landed at Claremont Graduate University, and they only had two memory tracks really. One was memory and aging, one was eyewitness testimony. Which was interesting, but just it didn't feel as aligned to like kind of my curiosity for really understanding, again, the core of what makes us human and drives our, you know. And so I was working in this lab where we were studying memory and aging, specifically looking at like associated memory and [00:18:00] like where pairing words together and for different age groups, your ability to remember two words that were paired together randomly. And I'm writing my master's thesis on this, you know, writing up the results and I'm hypothesizing in the paper what's going on in the brain that's causing these changes in memory with age.

And I distinctly remember having this moment where I was like, am I doing? Why are we hypothesizing what's happening in the brain when we literally have tools that allow us to observe and measure what's happening in the brain when people are trying to recall things, you know? And it was this moment of waking up where. Eye tracking had been the tool when I was an undergrad that was telling me this bio data that was at the core of, and then I moved over to only behavioral and it, I was missing that bio element. And so then I happened to just go to a lunch and learn where this guy, Dr. Paul Z is talking [00:19:00] about the research he is doing in his lab on campus that's actually doing blood draws and looking at hormone and neurochemical change to understand decision making. And again, it was like this light bulb of this is the, the, the tangible data that is body and brain related that's completely unbiased, that we don't have control over. That's actually the core that can tell me and help me better understand how humans are functioning and what is driving them in different ways.

So. Yeah, I went to one lab meeting and the rest was history. I ended up involved in probably 50 different research projects as I finished my PhD. I, I really was just, again, I, I was just eating it all up because it was like, we did studies looking at, uh, what are, you know, what are your neurochemicals uh, doing when you interact with a cat versus a dog?

What happens when people are engaging in rituals? So, uh, we worked with like the local Razi group doing their marches and looked at [00:20:00] how that impacted their physiology and decision making. And it was just, it was such an incredible time. We went and measured a mass meditation at Lightning in a bottle in Southern California.

I just wrote a blog on this, like, or published one from, you know, so anyway, it was just, it was really incredible and. got to really see and use tons of neuroscience tools because we were using blood draws, but then also moved into EEG caps with 256 electrodes on the outside of the head and breath analysis and skin conductance and heart rate.

Anyway, it just, it was everything from there. So that was a really incredible opportunity to get to kind of know these tools. And then I got to a point where I was like, oh, I'm getting close to graduating, and my plan was to go into academia and I realized, oh, wait a minute. I wanna go into academia, it's really competitive and I may have to be willing to move anywhere for a job. And I hated the cold. That's why I left the Midwest. I only applied to grad schools in ca, California and I was like, oh, I dunno if I wanna be [00:21:00] able to, or you know, if I'm, I'm willing to take a job anywhere. And so I kinda had to hit the drawing board and think about like, what's next? So yeah, it was a moment.

Soleil: Yeah,

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah.

Soleil: I mean, that's great. I mean, you, you took it into your own hands, you know, and I think that's kind of what I wanna dive a little bit deeper into is I don't think people mistake the feeling when they find something that they deeply connect to. Like you were saying, you know, when you heard Dr. Paul Z speak and you kind of knew like, oh, this is, I'm really interested in this.

And that's something that I, I feel often with athletics and with video and podcasting and stuff like that, is, you know, you feel, for me it's like this little feeling in like my chest or my stomach that says, you know, like, oh, you. Push yourself a little bit more, learn more about this. You know, like something's connecting in your brain right now that makes you really wanna learn more about this.

But, and I don't think people mistake that feeling, but I think people mistake what comes after that, which is the [00:22:00] doing. Right. So could you dive a little bit deeper into that moment for me when you met Dr. Paul, Zack, and when you started working with him and what made you, you know, go and actually do the doing of it?

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah. You know, for me it, and that's a really, really good question, Solay, and something where I think the doing can be the, the process of doing can differ depending on the, the scenario, right? For me, I had already recognized that there was something that was a gap in what I was currently doing and I doing a PhD in writing like, or a Master's and a PhD, like, 'cause I, there's a world like you can get your master's on the way to, and typically the fastest and easiest way is to turn your master's project into something you do for your PhD. I took longer, total and total time because I switched, but also recognize that for me. In order to be committed, because [00:23:00] also doing a PhD requires a lot of self-motivation. And realized that the doing I was doing with the master stuff was really draining and I wasn't feeling rewarded and I wasn't feeling inspired. And I was very concerned about my ability. And I felt like, again, that disconnect, like I'd moved away from the core physiology, that and that disconnect I recognized and listened to. And honestly, so lei, if I would've had to continue doing a PhD on that topic without any kind of neuroscience element, that allowed me that deeper confidence because I felt like I was lagging in what I was doing.

I felt like I was behind the times and I not listened to that. I prob, I don't know that I would've finished. I like to think I would have, but I wouldn't have been as happy. I wouldn't be where I am now, obviously. So I think there's a really important element of listening to your passion and listening to those internal. Like you're the voice in your head saying, Hey, hey, hey, something is wrong, or This is not what I love. And then [00:24:00] recognizing when something speaks to you, like you were saying with this, you know, your passions, listening to that voice and saying, I am going to take the, the first step, which was go to the lab meeting and I had the, and, and part of it again, I'm lucky that I had the encouragement from my parents who said, just do it.

We've got your back. Always. Like, just go. You can achieve anything. Imposter syndrome is real for everyone. It happens to me still, you know, but your best to squash that voice and take the step one, which for me, again, was going to the lab meeting and then I went to the lab meeting and I heard the projects that they were doing and I was just like, oh my gosh.

There's so many incredible things. And I feel excited. I don't feel excited when I get up and I have to write a paper. Not that I'm very passionate and, um, I, I care a lot about memory and aging and there's, I commend anyone who's doing research in that world because we need to better understand it so we can make it better. when you feel the spark and you recognize the spark is not re present somewhere else, you owe it to yourself to put one foot in front of [00:25:00] the other and to start the action. And you starting is the hardest, the hardest step. Right. And it's, there's research out there that shows there's overwhelm from just starting.

And so put, just do the first thing and, and break, break off that little piece of the cookie that you can eat and then, or you know, the, the piece of the pie. But yeah, I think it's just the, the doing is showing up. And some days you may not want to, but it's remembering and thinking back to the times when you were doing the things that didn't give you the same spark and energy, and recognizing that if you then keep having the same days where you wake up and you don't have the energy, then maybe it's time to think about what can I, what else can I pull in that reignites me and sparks me, you know?

But I think it's starting small and then putting one foot in front of the other. And I know there are plenty of people out there who are like, what do you mean now I'm always gonna start big. That's great if you have that ability in your mind to jump in and do that. But many of us feel overwhelmed by that.

So I think the doing is chunking it up, figuring out where to start until you [00:26:00] find yourself embedded and then you're like, how did I get here? I'm in the middle of a PhD where I'm doing all this incredible research and you know, so for me, again, it's been like listening, but then also just figuring out what the first step is and then oftentimes the next steps follow.

Soleil: Did you ever feel like you made the wrong choice?

Laura Beavin-Yates: Oh, yeah, yeah. I, I mean, the wrong choice and it's in context, right? Um, I, number one, honestly, like transparently, I was not, again, the most intentional in the way I applied to graduate schools, or in thinking about my kind of journey, uh, my academic journey, because I was so fascinated by the amnesia research we did.

But instead of going out and looking for amnesia researchers, I was like, I wanna get the hell out of the Midwest, and I wanna go somewhere warm. And I've always wanted to be in California. I just felt drawn to it. So I did apply to several schools, but it wasn't really like, Hey, I'm intentional and I wanna work with this person.

It was, I wanna pave my path and know, [00:27:00] like I, I'm going to grad school again. So, number one, I think being intentional and being a little bit more. Like educating yourself. And again, now we have tools to do that better. And also I try to coach and mentor where I can to help provide that guidance. 'cause I didn't really have it.

Like unfortunately my academic advisor wasn't great at inspiring that. And you know, the other element is, um, so I made a career pivot. I, I, I call it a sabbatical. made a career pivot a couple years ago. I was working at the current company I'm at, and I, I love the company that I was at, that I am at now. And I love the company then even. But I was doing a role which was in customer success, and I basically built that our customer success team without any previous experience.

It was like, just immerse myself in the field, learn about it, et cetera. And after four years of doing that, I was personally feeling like I'd really learned all, there was not everything, but you know, I, I kind of reached my knowledge gap or my knowledge, um, where I wanted to to be, [00:28:00] and my knowledge on the customer success stuff.

And an opportunity came my way to join another startup. And were several red flags. respect to that startup that told me that my personal mission and passions were not necessarily aligned with the leadership there. And, but it was an exciting concept. It was an opportunity to move to a new city that they were gonna cover. And so I think I let the enthusiasm and sparks that were sparks kind of outside of sparks that were there. But I, I, my focus on the sparks led me to not look at and, and focus on some of the red flags. And so while I wouldn't necessarily call that a mistake, it was a step that I learned a lot from, but that if I were to reassess, would I have joined that company?

Was it the mission? Was it the right time? Like, maybe I would rethink if [00:29:00] and encourage myself at that time to look at the broader picture and maybe think a little bit more about the red flags. But.

Soleil: Definitely, I, I mean, I think everybody's had that kind of experience, you know, especially in a career, especially when it comes to like your first few careers. Also, you know, joining, uh, a team where you're just not aware of what red flags to even look out for, especially early on in your career. Right?

Like, I, I joined a, a startup not too long ago as well, maybe two or three years ago at this point, and there was definitely some red flags that now that I can look back and be like, oh, if I were joining another company, I would know what those red flags are, right? But now, but back then, like, I, I didn't know what to look out for.

So I'm, I'm so curious, like, what were the red flags that you should have been looking out for with that company?

Laura Beavin-Yates: I, I, I agree with you, Solei. I think part of it is, um, you know, the learning, learning what to look for and also, you know, because [00:30:00] before I've always, I feel as though I've tried to be fairly intentional in kind of the, the roles early on. I was not, I took a role that was like a three month role, straight outta grad school, was a horrible fit. Got lucky that

Soleil: Mm-hmm.

Laura Beavin-Yates: school colleagues was in a position that was a great fit and ended up landing in this neuroscience and emotion team. Um, aside from that, I've always been very focused on like, okay, looking for signals to balance. I'm not having enough balance in my traveling too much. Um, and I've not been the person ever who's said I must be, um, the leader of a company or in a leadership role, or as I've progressed through my career, I've recognized how much I appreciate the opportunity to be in a role of leadership where I can mentor and guide and help also. Align the company and, you know, use some of the natural skills I feel like I have in order to, to contribute to the, the overall success of the company. The red flags in this particular case were my own personal, um, [00:31:00] um, moral guidelines and the way that I, what I find really important and what inspires me and motivates me. Um, that was number one. And then recognizing that maybe there were other people who were on the leadership team who may not have those same kinds of missions and alignment in passion and things like that. Also, thinking back, it was a all male leadership team and I was really the only female there, and that dynamic was really challenging and I very much, I'm a strong, I consider myself a pretty strong voice, but I also am not someone who, you know, creates, I don't wanna create a lot of rift and things like that.

I will speak up when I believe I need to, but. being in a room with a bunch of males who have off color jokes that just don't feel right. Like think I probably because of some of the other misalignments in my own things I'm passionate about, um, advocating for in life and socially and things like that.

Um, I think [00:32:00] recognizing that that mis potential misalignment could lead to the kind of environment that I was in and the difference in priorities between people on the team. I think it was that element where I didn't know how much this misalignment in external things. As humans, we bring everything with us, you know, and it's like, certainly I can leave my social beliefs at home, but at the same time it's still core to who I am as a human.

So I think just, I wish I'd been a little bit more aware of like, I. much those things that are not aligned can carry in. And I let, again, the enthusiasm for the concept and the potential for challenging myself. I love that. Like it is hard and challenging and stressful, but I was excited at the challenge.

But when you have a work-based challenge already in a startup and then you have all this additional challenge because of misalignment, that was something that I really learned a lot from and really didn't have great psychological safety in [00:33:00] that experience. And now it very much would any, if I were ever to consider anything else, I'm very happy where I'm now, and I'm gonna stay here until I can't anymore. But ultimately where, I think now if I were to be in a position where I was considering joining another team, I would do everything I could to have meetings and, and also again, to listen to any possible red flags. Because what starts as a small red flag usually ends up as a blazing fire later if you trust your instinct, right?

So

Soleil: Hmm. Yes.

Laura Beavin-Yates: yeah.

Soleil: Yes. Very true. And, and you started kind of getting into this, but for if there was somebody who. Wanted to look out for red flags or maybe started noticing them in within their own company or their own position or team, whatever it may be, you know, what would you tell them to look out for? What would you tell them to start doing?

You

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We're about to learn what red flags you can look out for in the workplace.

Laura Beavin-Yates: you know, I

think the level of red flag kind of matters. Um, if it's something honestly for me that, um, that goes against, again, my kind of moral beliefs and, and who I am for me personally, uh, if that's happening regularly. And it seems like it, it, it depends on the level as well, right? Are these red [00:35:00] flags happening at the leadership level where things start at the leadership level and the leadership of an organization, whether or not they acknowledge it. People look at them, they listen to their stories, they're looking at how they're behaving, they observe behaviors, and you signal so many things. As a leader in an organization, I'm constantly, I'm not always the best at balance. I'm working very hard on it. I'm constantly trying to remind myself, do not, you know, like sign off at the right times.

Not just for you, but also so your team sees you signaling that behavior, not just saying, not just telling them to sign off early, you know? I think it, it, it partly depends on where it's at. If it's in leadership, if it's someone who's like a direct manager, depending on the red flag, again, if it's something where. They've spoken to you in an inappropriate way, or, uh, you feel like you're being micromanaged or it's not against something where it's maybe a deep moral core social belief. Those are hard, right? Because that's, that's messy. That's something that, again, people expect to stay outside of work and it carries in and are hard to, [00:36:00] things to address.

And I think that becomes something where you have to personally assess. You can't expect someone else to change necessarily. You have to determine is this something that is a deal breaker for you? Right? But if it's a red flag, again, where you feel like you're being micromanaged or someone, uh, speaks to you in a way that's inappropriate, address it, speak to them, have a conversation with them.

And if it's your direct supervisor, I hope that you have enough psychological safety to feel comfortable enough to approach them to say, Hey, uh, or Mary, or whoever it is, um. Y you know, we had this exchange and I really respect you as a coworker, and I just wanna share that this exchange had this impact on me and it made me feel this way.

And I just wanna share it because again, I really respect working with you and I love having a really healthy working relationship, and I felt as though if I didn't bring it up, it might be something that I may carry with me. So you can frame things in ways where you're sharing your experience, but are not accosting someone of, or blaming them, you know, if it's [00:37:00] micromanaging.

Again, I think those are the kinds of things where if something happens and the, the earlier it happens, the sooner you address it and you speak up and say, this is a, I'm not really okay with this. But again, you say it in a way that's understanding and empathetic and that demonstrates that you're not trying to attack them, but have a conversation to share so that you can both work better together. is one of the biggest suggestions I can give, is if you see a red flag and you have the opportunity to speak to someone about it. Do it because otherwise, again, those things grow in faster. We carry these things unconsciously, consciously. If it's someone you don't feel comfortable speaking to, then I would encourage people, and I have very much people I mentor to go to the next level if you can, again, you know, things are gonna be, I work at a company that's a 10 person company basically, and it's fabulous because I feel very psychologically safe with everyone that I work with, including other people in leadership and our CEOI can go to them and say, Hey, the way you said that, like, I know you're stressed out.

I know we're all stressed out, but [00:38:00] it gave this signal to me and others and I wanna give you that feedback because they're very open to that feedback. As am I right? I'm in an organization that is a hundred people and I am at junior level and I have a manager and then there's a manager, manager. You know, I can't, and I don't feel comfortable going to my immediate per supervisor, then I suggest making sure that you have an opportunity to speak to the person above you. Because ultimately, and it's all about assessing what is the red flag again. Like you can't go to someone and say, Hey, this person believes this and I believe this. That's not what we're, you know, it's like red flags where people are not respecting you or they're not, they're creating a psychologically unsafe scenario or they're not giving you feedback.

I have someone I mentored who every time that she would work on a project, the person who was her, her, um, like her supervisor, her um, I think she like, was under a kind of a multi person team, but one of the people on that team who was there to help coach and guide her would basically just change her work and say, this is wrong.

Instead of [00:39:00] explaining why and. things have a huge impact on our confidence and our work output. And, I hate it because it was, it was encouraging her to feel like she was not good enough. And I explained in every call that we had, I'm like, this isn't about you. This is about the person you're working with.

They're not giving you the proper coaching and tools to improve yourself. And guess what? She got a new position. She's thriving, she has been promoted. It's so much better.

Soleil: Oh, good.

Laura Beavin-Yates: so sometimes,

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Laura Beavin-Yates: I hate to say it, but sometimes those red flags might be the flag that says, get the hell out. You need to find something different.

This isn't a good fit for you. You know? But if you don't ever listen to those, I mean, to me the, the biggest nightmare would be working a job for the rest of my life that I didn't like with a team I didn't like.

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Laura Beavin-Yates: You know, that would just be,

Soleil: Totally.

Laura Beavin-Yates: yeah.

Soleil: I mean, we spend more time with our coworkers than we do with our own family Sometimes, you know, you might as well be making your workplace a, a healthy and safe place to be in.

Laura Beavin-Yates: absolutely. And honestly, half the time we bring it home with us unintentionally. You know, [00:40:00] and, and that circles back to this idea of, you know, and the actionable tips, like for the, for the newsletter. It's like, listen to the things that inspire you, because at the end of the day, again, we're gonna have bumps in the road. Not every day that I wake up is a day where I am like, I can't wait to, but most of the days are, you know, there's going to be days that are challenging. But if you on a mission you're inspired by and you're on a mission that matters to you, most likely, the other people who are part of the company also believe in that mission.

And then you're with people who have shared ideas and you get to cowork on something that you're all excited about, you know? So yeah.

Soleil: Yeah, and I really wanna like highlight this also for women. You know, I feel as a woman in business, my personal experience is. You know, I've had experiences where I may have wanted to say something, but I didn't because I was nervous. I was scared of the way [00:41:00] that I would be perceived as the woman in the office.

Right. Do you, out of the people that you've mentored, have you come across other women who have that fear, and what do you tell them in that case?

Laura Beavin-Yates: You know, it's, it's interesting, I, I don't know that in the people I've mentored, I've heard that in particular, however, I have dedicated or tried to dedicate portions of my time to creating, either creating organizations, joining organizations, volunteering for organizations that are specifically focused on the pa, playing ground for women, and helping them build these skills that allow us to be in a room and have a voice heard just as much as a man, and to be comfortable and confident in those scenarios. Cool.

Soleil: Hmm.

Laura Beavin-Yates: Overcoming, like I said, imposter syndrome is something I experience, someone like it is a common thing. It's our how our brains work. We question our skills, our knowledge, and we have those little moments that creep [00:42:00] in. what I always try to remember is that I'm an expert in my life experience and the experiences I've had.

The stories I can tell no one else has lived that. And I have spent time studying and living my life and having these experiences and they are just as relevant and as important as Joe's experiences are. And so. SI think that the, the, it's hard to give a tip to say squash that fear because fear is real and it can be, you know, but, um, it's really interesting.

Uh, there's some research that shows like, or there's some research that's actually kind of been debunked, but, um, about like power posing and about like, you know, you can hold your arms up and, right. And, and it's, it makes me a bit bummed because there is some research that's kind of debunked some of the idea of like this, that, you know, changes our physiology and, but

Soleil: No,

Laura Beavin-Yates: know,

Soleil: that.

Laura Beavin-Yates: But, but at the same [00:43:00] time, right, it's all about how you feel. Because guess what, if I put my shoulders back and I give myself a bigger, stronger presence, I do feel more confident whether or not I'm showing the physiologic effects of that. I feel that way and my feelings. are what affects how we interact with the world.

So if I can in a moment before I have that conversation or I'm in this room, if I can broaden the shoulders and sit back and remind myself that I'm an expert in my life and the experiences I've had way more than this person is, helps me feel the confidence to stand up and to speak up and to speak out. I also very much encourage women to do the things, to help uplift each other because the more we uplift each other, the stronger we become and the more confident we become. I'm not great at this myself. I have a PhD. I do not introduce myself as doctor. I don't, when I taught, I didn't ask people to call me a doctor, but I gave a, um, a kind of a, a personal branding talk, um, a month ago [00:44:00] or so, and one of the suggestions I had in that was. As females, we should be using each other's titles. We should be calling out those elements because it helps to uplift not only the other women around us, but it also helps to build our confidence. So I think there's little signals and little things that we can do that over time end up building up our confidence and allow us to be stronger.

But like I said, in that moment, are not, I know I feel better if I, like if I have to interview or do something, it's like stand, you know, sit with your backup high, put the shoulders back, and think about a time when you were successful. Think about a win you had because that's gonna give you a little dopamine boost and that's gonna help you to be able to have that kind of confidence to overcome that Right. And also, if

Soleil: Yeah, absolutely

Laura Beavin-Yates: speaking of also,

Soleil: no go.

Laura Beavin-Yates: 'cause this is on the right topic. If you're interrupted by a male, call him out as I interrupted you to say that. I apologize. Bye. Like not allowing those kinds of toxic behaviors because that I, one of the things I [00:45:00] learned from my very first mentor in my, um, like kind of career in Neuromarketing, Alyssa Moses, I remember her talking about when she worked in advertising, being around like in a room of, of males around a table, and just this one guy continually interrupting her. And it infuriates me to hear those stories stand up. Don't just sit back and take it because it's just so inappropriate. And the reason things like that keep happening is because people aren't speaking up and standing up for themselves. You know? So it, I know it can take a lot, but up for yourself because you have knowledge to bring.

And just remembering that again, you are an expert in the life that you have lived and in the knowledge that you've gained and the experiences that we, you've had. And you have a right to share those just as much as any male. Yeah.

Soleil: And would you recommend, you know, if you were in, you know, a space with, let's say there's like five men, five women, and there's just this one guy who always interrupts this, this one girl in meetings, if, if I'm her friend sitting next to her, am [00:46:00] I saying something to her? Am I saying something to him?

Am I saying something to higher up? You know, if, if she doesn't feel confident enough in speaking up, what would you, what would you recommend in that kind of situation in order to, you know, help and be that, that friend who says you don't deserve to be treated like that, you know, in that, in that kind of situation.

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah. You know, I, the, it, it will partly depend on the team dynamic, right? Um, and kind of comfort levels, I'd say within the team. I personally, depending on the dynamic, would, the person who would probably speak to the, again, it very much depends like, are you all on the same team? Are you under the same supervisor? I am a person who's a connector and I, I find it very important and I often speak about the importance of everyone at the company rowing the same direction and following the same mission and understanding and being aligned. I likely personally would, would approach that person kindly and say, Hey, I noticed that you interrupt a lot and I know you're probably not.

And again, I always try to approach those things in a [00:47:00] way that is empathetic and understanding and is not saying are doing something bad, but hey, I happen to notice that our colleague was speaking and you know, you interrupted. And you know, that probably wasn't intentional, but it's something that I just recognized.

And I just wanna share that feedback because other people may perceive this as well and I just wanna share. I would try probably that route. Now, if this is a serial interrupter and know that they've gotten feedback from other people that's similar or it's been called out before, I wouldn't call that out in the middle of a meeting personally because then it can create.

Now if I'm being interrupted in the middle of a meeting. Depending on how it happens, I might say, I'm sorry, but that, you know, can I please finish? I'm not gonna call 'em out and say, don't interrupt. But I will say, I, I'll make it known like that. This is the scenario. And then maybe talk after. You don't wanna create a scene obviously, because that doesn't help anyone.

It creates discomfort and then a rift between the two of you. But having that comfort outside and then depending, again, if it's a serial interrupter and they haven't really changed, that's when I would talk to a supervisor and say, this is creating [00:48:00] an an uncomfortable, psychologically unsafe scenario for the entire team. And understand it's been addressed before, but it's impacting everyone. And so I wanna make sure I'm calling it out because. Yeah, these things have an impact on the success of the company, on productivity, on how we treat customers. All of these things ladder together. So for me, speaking up and just making sure, but again, the way, it probably depends on the dynamics and I would avoid that, like creating this really intense interaction within the moment a friend supporting.

But if they're uncomfortable, I would then not, I would make, I would tell them that I was going to do it, you know, as a friend, but I would approach it in a way that, again, was kind and empathetic to the person that to you, present it in a way where you're trying to help them because you really are, you're trying to help them create a better work environment for everyone else, right?

Soleil: And what I really love about a lot of the theme [00:49:00] of your answers so far, you know, have to do with misalignment becoming alignment, right? You being misaligned in one thing ultimately becomes you being aligned and what's truly meant for you. And so how would you go about finding that alignment?

So for example, you know, you, in your last job you had a bunch of red flags, and then afterwards you found like this, this job that you love so much. How did you get from point A to point B and finding the career that was really meant for you at this stage of your life?

Laura Beavin-Yates: You know, it took time, honestly, and it took listening because I mentioned, you know, so I, I was the second hire for the company immersion that I work for now, and that was back in 2013. And I took that role because I'd spent time in neuromarketing market research. I've always loved data, I had actually kind of up on the neuromarketing world because I'd seen a lot of snake oil.

Unfortunately, I'd seen a lot of methodologies that claimed to measure [00:50:00] something meaningful, and the work that I'd done in graduate school was fully centered around measuring. Physiologic behavior using neuroscience tools or physiologic, um, measures basically. And then predicting future behavior because of it.

I knew there was an ability to do that. So when I joined our company immersion, I was a subject matter expert in all that information. Again, kind of learned the world of customer success. And when I, again, ventured out, it was that I wanted to challenge myself and I saw an opportunity to do this. But then I found myself in a po a position where unfortunately the company hadn't, um, uh, hadn't managed money well and was taking everything offshore.

And I found myself without a job the first time I'd ever been laid off. And it was really stressful. And I was thinking, okay, I have been living in this startup world. I, again, second hire diversion, which that, getting that off the ground had its own bumps in the road. We were, you know, early days when the pandemic launched.

Really, I mean, [00:51:00] Uh, super early days, but like we were at the time when pandemic happened, um, we had what we used to call this, uh, mission Impossible case. So it was like a computer that had dongles and you had these like fitness sensors and you could measure real time responses, but really couldn't do it remotely.

You had to be in person with a computer, following people around, making sure you were close enough that you could get the data from their sensors, you know? Um, and anyway, it was, there were bumps in the road, like with any startup, and then I went to another startup and then found myself without a job and I was like, maybe, this is a signal that I should not be involved in Startups are certain and stressful and they don't have a lot of balance and yada yada yada.

And so when I first found myself to see what I was gonna do next, I was. Applying for corporate roles. And I was like, may I just need to go back to, to balance and the stability and uh, you know, maybe I'll go back into market [00:52:00] research or, you know, uh, maybe I'll apply for customer success even though I wasn't really passionate about that. So I'd started to apply for some roles and then was also simultaneously advising several early stage startups. And what I recognized by pausing and reflecting that the work and effort I was putting into these applications for corporate roles, I wasn't really putting intentional, good effort and energy into, was kind of easy applying and like maybe would modify my resume, but not feeling passionate about applying for those jobs.

I wasn't excited to have them. one or two or there, but I, I just wasn't, but then I would have meetings with these startup founders and we'd be ideating about the challenges that they had and thinking about how do we solve, you know, x, y, Z problem? How do we grow your marketing? How do we think about your go-to market strategy?

How do we [00:53:00] think about, you know, how you're going to really improve your customer experience and map that journey out. And I just had this moment where I was like, I don't wanna work in corporate. I love startups. I love the uncertainty. And while it's scary and risky and sometimes not great balance, I'm inspired and I'm motivated and I'm excited by it, and I need to listen to that calling.

You know, and that's what then inspired me to, I was advising against several startups. I ended up, I was consulting with, uh, immersion, helping on some of their, they had launched our B2C app. Um, they'd launched MVP version. I was helping a little bit there. And then I got a call from the CEO one day and he is like, um, you know that we want you to come back, right? all the other stuff. Like, just come back and be part of the team. And I was like, absolutely. Like no question. Because again, the, the, the challenge even when I left was never the team. And I really wish I had paused and had more conversation with the CEO about kind of how I was feeling stagnant because there was [00:54:00] so much opportunity probably for me to continue to grow and learn and help contribute to the company here in a different way. But again, I was kinda listening to this other poll. So anyway, um, you know, it was, again, pausing and reflecting and listening to the things that were sparking energy and recognizing the things that were not. And as humans, especially in the world we live in now, we're not really great at self-reflecting. On things. We don't pause enough to do that. And so I think it was just taking the moment to take stock and look in the mirror and say, Hey, you are getting rejections from corporate Bull because you are really not putting in an energy and effort to land the thing that you absolutely could land. Like I could absolutely go and work in several different kinds of corporate roles, but I didn't want it at the time and I was feeling the inspiration elsewhere.

So I, I had to pause and kind of reassess and [00:55:00] then recognize that, you know.

Soleil: Is there something that you're still working on in your own development that some people wouldn't expect?

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah, balance, balance all day. I mean, maybe people would expect it from the conversation, but you know, it's really interesting. Um, I, so we, I, I mentioned we have this B2C app and we released it in, um, the full version in October, 2024, so it's not even a full year old. And ironically, this B2C app for direct to consumer app called Six is a, a tool for emotional fitness, emotional wellness. It's meant to people self-reflect and recognize the things that they're already doing throughout their day that are bringing them this deep level of brain and body connection. So we're basically infer, inferring the real time release of oxytocin. When I was in grad school, we were measuring that through blood.

We discovered that when oxytocin releases, it means you're deeply connected enough to something that you're [00:56:00] likely to act on it and remember it. And it turns out that when our brain and body have these moments, when we're all in and fully connected, those are moments that are thriving from the brain's perspective.

Our brain does not like to be in the current state of the world that we're in, where social media's pulling us here, we're doom scrolling. It's just content, content, content that's not actually resonating in deep ways. Uh, you know, we're being bombarded by shows that want us to keep watching. It just we're, our brain is in this, like it's being, it's like a ragdoll being pulled in a million directions, and that's not a happy state for the brain. Our brain likes to be all in and deeply connected in these moments of. Like thriving, in essence, I'm in flow or I'm in a deep conversation or you know, I'm fully connected to this show because it's telling a story that really resonates. So the challenge I have is that I, I, I care so much because we've always, when we launch as a B2B company, our goal was to help creators and [00:57:00] experience creators create better content and experiences that resonate more with individuals.

Because I pay to attend an experience. I give my time to go out to a restaurant, I go to a show that costs me money and time. I go because I wanna create memories. I want to have these things that are lasting and I. On the, the, with the now the individual wellness app. Like I get to work on something that is literally trying to help people live better lives.

And like we still have a B2B side where we're trying to help people create better experiences, like we're working with sports teams and just, it's, it's so exciting. But it we're, I work in a startup and I'm like, you know, I've got, um, another team on, uh, another member on my team for the marketing side, and oftentimes I'll be in sales calls and things like that.

And so my passion and enthusiasm sometimes translates to me over stacking my calendar and being in back to back meetings. Like I had a call with a woman this [00:58:00] morning and we were talking about the fact that there's neuroscience research that shows if you have back to back zoom meetings, you, it's not good for your brain.

Your brain needs recovery mode. You need to take a break and you don't function as efficiently. You're not as productive. know all that research exists, but it doesn't mean that I'm always being intentional. blocking my calendar and as I mentioned, showing the balance, signing off at the right time because if I have meetings, you know, if I have six meetings out, like throughout the day, at the end of the day, then I have to send the follow up emails and that means that I sort those at five.

And so my constant work in progress is, and, and one thing, I'm going on vacation actually starting Friday and I'll be off for a week. I know I'm very excited. Um, and my goal is to come back with a plan on how I can be better at. Uh, implementing balance in a way that will not just help me, but will help [00:59:00] my productivity, my output, because there's plenty of research that shows that.

And in fact, our app six surfaces what we call these key moments, and these again are the moments when your brain and body are all in and flooded with, like dopamine and oxytocin. The goal is to get six a day. We've shown that people who are doing well get four a day. People who are really thriving and who are, who feel at their best get six a day. days when I

Soleil: Hmm.

Laura Beavin-Yates: stacked back to back and I work until seven because I'm sending follow-up emails, I might get one or two key moments. days when I actually am intentional with my calendar or I get the opportunity to do an in-person meeting, I get more key moments. I want to be more

Soleil: Wow. Isn't that so interesting?

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah, I was at a summit in London, um, the World Experience Summit, and I don't think I've ever gotten 10 key moments. Since I've been measuring myself since October I 10 key moments the last day of the conference because I had so many incredible deep [01:00:00] conversations, and I'm a, an extrovert, I am a connector.

So I want to be better at like being intentional, blocking my calendar, working on that balance, but also thinking about, I know that I thrive when I am connecting in person. So maybe once a week or once every two weeks, I should go down to the coworking station and work there because that is actually contributing to my brain health and my balance and all of that stuff contributes to how I show up for my team, how I show up for my coworkers, the kind of work that I'm outputting. So that was a long explanation to say balance. It is always something that I'm working on and I'm aspiring to do better at.

Soleil: Oh, no, that's great. I, the true test of this podcast will be if when you finish this podcast, you can look onto the application and see if this was one of your key moments of the day.

Laura Beavin-Yates: I'm definitely measuring myself right now.

Soleil: Good.

Laura Beavin-Yates: Absolutely.

Soleil: Good. I'm good. Well, I'm gonna start wrapping up this podcast, Laura, but I [01:01:00] do have one more question for you and I just, this is my favorite question to ask people at the end of an episode, and it really just comes around full circle. If you could go back in, in time and tell your childhood self one piece of advice, what piece of advice would that be?

Laura Beavin-Yates: That's a good one. I would say continue to be loud and proud and to stand up for the things that. You care about and believe in. I, I, I do feel I continue to do that today, but certainly, and be yourself. Be yourself, unapologetically. Be yourself. Because I remember when I was, uh, kind of really starting my career, uh, at Ipsos, you know, big corporate company, even though I was on a small team, big company. And at the time I think I had maybe one tattoo and I wanted to dye my hair, [01:02:00] crazy colors, but I would only get tattoos at places that could be covered. And I was a little worried about having my hair look professional and what I wore. And now all of that is out the window. I'm like, I am who I am, my hair color, the earrings I wear, my tattoos have zero impact on my knowledge and. By being able to come upon like unapologetically as who I am, it actually allows me to connect more deeply with people. I'll join a call and someone's like, oh, someone earlier told me they were fangirling over my glasses and my earrings. Like, what an incredible start to a call, right? And that is because gotten to a point where I can show up authentically me and unapologetically me.

And so that actually like continuing again to be loud and proud and stand up for what you believe in. But I think actually most importantly, you and your authentic self no matter what, because it will always [01:03:00] guide you in the right way. That's my, yeah. Okay.

Soleil: I love it. Well, that's wonderful. Thank you so much, Laura. I have just so appreciated having this conversation with you today and learning about who you are, what your story is, and I think a lot of people will take really great insights away from this conversation. So thank you for joining me today.

Laura Beavin-Yates: so much for having me, Sola. This has seriously been probably the the most fun podcast conversation I've gotten to have, so thank you for the opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Soleil: Key moment, key moment,

Laura Beavin-Yates: exactly. I know. I was like, yes, look at the app. I bet my scores are at their top right now.

Soleil: woo.

Laura Beavin-Yates: I love it. I

Soleil: That means that everybody should subscribe right now to the podcast.

Laura Beavin-Yates: Yeah, because there's also a fun bit about oxytocin release. There's something called neural synchrony, and usually when people are all in talking about something, that means audiences also get highly connected. So absolutely. My

Soleil: Ooh.

Laura Beavin-Yates: suggests that you should tune in.

Soleil: Yes. [01:04:00] Wonderful. Thank you so much, Laura, and you heard it here first. You need to subscribe.

Laura Beavin-Yates: I love

Soleil: Thank you so much, Laura.

Laura Beavin-Yates: Thanks.

Soleil: Bye-bye.

Speaker 4: Thank you again for listening to this episode of Sweat Strategy and Success. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to follow on your favorite podcast listening platform, give it a rating and share with your friends and family. Make sure to make it back here next Wednesday. See you soon.