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Soleil: Welcome back to Sweat Strategy and Success, the podcast where we break down the grit, the game plan, and the growth behind every great story. Today, I'm joined by Milo Chao, brand strategist, storyteller, and someone who understands the deep connection between narrative and influence. We're starting with a little bit of a catch up.

Soleil: Milo and I have both been on the move From the high energy streets of New York to my time in Mexico and soon Buenos Aires, travel changes the way we see the world, and more importantly, the way we tell our stories. [00:01:00] And that's exactly what we're diving into today, storytelling. What makes a story unforgettable?

Soleil: Why do some narratives shape entire cultures while others fade into the background? We're unpacking the ancient principles from Aristotle and the Nadia Shastra, Blending them with modern day storytelling at places like The Moth.

Soleil: And even exploring how AI is shaking up the way we craft and consume stories. But at its core, storytelling is still about one thing. Connection.

Soleil: the future. So whether you're building a brand, growing a business, or simply trying to tell your own story more powerfully, this episode is for you. Let's get into it.

Soleil: Hi Milo. How, how are you doing?

Milo: right. How are you?

Soleil: I'm doing good. Thank you. You were just in your home city and one of my favorite cities in the world last week, New York. How was it?

Milo: I was good. [00:02:00] It was, it was sort of a homecoming. Um, you know, I grew up in Queens, New York. And, uh, I was just going to New York to meet a few friends, uh, potential clients and, uh, potential collaborators. So just, uh, a whirlwind of, uh, a tour in New York. Where, where are you based?

Soleil: I'm actually, I'm in Mexico right now.

Milo: Are you in Mexico? All right.

Milo: Okay. That's good.

Soleil: Yep. I'm kind of a digital nomad. So I like to jump around quite a bit. I'm currently in Mexico and I leave for Buenos Aires next Wednesday actually for three months. So that's where I'll be.

Milo: Wow. All right.

Soleil: Yep.

Milo: Okay.

Soleil: when this podcast gets posted, I'll be flying to Argentina.

Milo: Nice. Very nice. All right.

Soleil: Tell me a little bit more about your your childhood. In Queens.

Milo: My childhood in Queens. Um, well, I, I, I, um, I was [00:03:00] actually born in Dublin, Ireland. I lived there for seven years and then moved to the United States when I was, when I was seven. Um, I lived in a very mixed neighborhood. I wouldn't say they're all immigrants, but it was, um, mostly black Hispanic. Um, very few white people, very few.

Milo: Um, I think I remember the first time I ever met a blonde person was when I was 16 in high school. So

Milo: I was,

Soleil: Awesome.

Milo: you know, but a very, very sort of eclectic group of people. Um, so it was, it was a good, uh, experience growing up in New York.

Soleil: Yeah. That's great. Do you feel like that experience of growing up in such multicultural neighborhoods impacted who you are today?

Milo: Well, for sure. I mean, I I've, I've always been. interested in [00:04:00] cultures and interested in a variety of cultures. That's, but of course it's not to say that everyone who grows up in New York and in particular Queens is going to be interested in, in cultures and are interested in different groups of people.

Milo: But I was particularly interested in a wide variety of, of cultures. Um, you know, I could be talking to someone from Guatemala, from Ecuador, from, you know, Guyana, from. Haiti, um, you know, someone from coming from the South, someone coming from Ireland, someone coming from France. I mean, it was just, it was such a melting, I guess a melting pot.

Milo: Um, and with that comes, um, I guess problems, but you know, there's always friction in culture, but I think that, uh, yeah, no, I think it was, it certainly did. I mean, I, I was always interested in traveling, um, and I was always interested in moving around. I loved the idea of hanging out in [00:05:00] airports and going overseas.

Milo: I was, got excited when I looked at all the destinations that, or the departures at the airport. You know, seeing where people were going and thinking about where I could be. So yeah, no, I think it's, uh, I think growing up in New York sort of gives you that sort of desire or exposure to so many different cultures that you're excited by it rather than sort of repulsed or, or not interested.

Milo: So,

Soleil: What is a good story to you?

Milo: What is a good story? Um, I think a good story is something that brings us in, um, and we become invested in it. I think a good story takes us along a journey and it twists and turns and brings us up, brings us down in terms of emotions. And I think that is [00:06:00] And I, I think it, it, it sometimes will confound us, it will surprise us, it'll be unexpected, um, and ultimately it'll give us something, whether that is, uh, uh, you know, an emotional resolution or even something to take away to think about.

Milo: I think is that's what makes a good story. I think what makes a good story is that it's memorable it's indelible. It's, it's left an imprint on us that we can sort of refer to. Um, Uh, something that can guide us and, and I, I think You know, just thinking about some of the stories from, from, you know, uh, ancient times, you know, for, for instance, where you have Aristotle, you have the desire to, uh, create a sense of catharsis at the end of, of, uh of a play or what have you [00:07:00] in tragedy.

Milo: Um, you know, a feeling of sort of purging, a feeling of release. And if you think about, if you think about, uh, Horace, in his Ars Poetica, he talks about the desire to create sort of, um, delight. There's a delight that is, uh, part of, part of the, the, um, end of a story. And if you look at, um, the Natya Shastra from India.

Milo: A 2000 year old text on performing arts. The desire there is to educate, to entertain, and to enlighten. Right? So if you can enlighten, create sort of this degree of spiritual enlightenment, that is sort of the desire and, and, and then therefore that is the, a good story.

Milo: A good story leaves you with something, um, very powerful that you can take away.

Milo: It's not just in the moment. Um, yes, it is in the moment. I think it should. grab you, but I think it should leave something, [00:08:00] whether it's a scar or a gift.

Soleil: And where did you find your, your passion for storytelling?

Milo: It's interesting because I don't think I'm actually a very good storyteller. I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm a good presenter, but I'm, I'm not necessarily, I think there are different types of storytellers, right? There's one who's like at a bar and he'll just sort of, you know, whip something up and, and, and everyone's sort of.

Milo: fully engaged. Um, there's those who just get on stage and you tell an amazing story. Uh, and those, you know, but it takes practice. Uh, but for me, I think story became sort of, I've always been interested in story because my mother was a storyteller. My mother was, you know, she's Irish and there's sort of this, Um, I guess stereotype that the Irish are, are good at, uh, spinning [00:09:00] yarns, right?

Milo: They're good at telling stories. And, you know, we read a lot of books together. We, you know, we sat up late at night and read stories together. So I think, I think there's that sort of, um, background, right. It's almost sort of part of, I wouldn't say part of my DNA, but it does feel like that is story is something that.

Milo: Um, binds me to my, my past, binds me to my, uh, my ethnicity, binds me to my mother on some level who passed away when I was seven. So that I kind of held on to that, um, So, yeah, I mean, I, and who doesn't love a good story, right? I mean, I, I think it's sort of like, you know, um, who doesn't love candy? You know, well, I mean, I guess some people don't like candy, but you know, to say you don't like story, I think just seems odd to me.

Milo: So the question is, it's not so much, why do you like story, but why are you so interested in, in the structure of story, the mechanics of story, the anatomy of [00:10:00] story? I think that's, that's what is particularly interesting to me. Um, And that's, that's sort of where I sort of spend a lot of, of my time thinking about.

Soleil: Hmm. Yeah, that's it. It's so interesting that you say that you don't think of yourself as a good storyteller, you know, because I don't think of myself very much as a good storyteller

Milo: Mm hmm.

Soleil: Especially because at least for me, the criteria for a good story is one that engages you on that, you know, one where you are laughing and maybe crying and you can just, and there's some people who are just really good storytellers. Um, I'm not really good at that, and, uh, wonder if storytelling is more innate or if it's something that we can learn. What do you think?

Milo: Well, well, I think, I think there are some people who are, grow up in environments [00:11:00] where storytelling is part of the everyday, right? Um, you know, I, I think we, we all sort of think about Mark Twain. We think of Southern, Southern gentlemen telling just beautiful stories and on the, you know, in the South. I mean, Southerners.

Milo: Just have this wonderful drawl. It feels like they just, it's like molasses. It's like just beautiful storytelling. Um, I'm thinking of, uh, Matthew McConaughey as sort of this amazing storyteller, for instance. I mean, it's just sort of out of left field there, but, so the question is, is it innate or is it. Is it nurture?

Milo: I think it's, it's nurtured for sure. I think, but I think it's an environmental thing. I think you need to be surrounded by it. Like if your family grows up dancing, you know, it's very likely that you're going to be a good dancer or feel comfortable dancing. It's just normal. It's just natural. You just sort of bring it in, bring it on.

Milo: And without sort of understanding the scaffolding of it, right. The anatomy of it. The how it all works. And [00:12:00] sometimes even if you try to think about that, if you start to think about, you know, how does this all work? You ask the why does it all work? That actually may have a negative impact on your ability to to be a good storyteller.

Milo: Um, you know, so for instance, um, you know, you wouldn't ask Tiger Woods to teach you. You'd ask the guy who's a Lost to Tiger Woods, maybe 10 times to teach you because he probably has spent the time, you know, wondering how he lost, why he lost, um, you know, sometimes the best coaches aren't necessarily the best.

Milo: storytellers, for instance, right? Um, but do I think it's, it's nature or nurture? No, I think it's, I think it's, um, it's a little bit of both, I think. Um, and I think it's, it's, I think there's also a personality, right? I think there's, there's a personality type that likes to tell stories, um, and that is able to tell stories.

Milo: And there's different, there's different levels of vulnerability [00:13:00] in the way you tell stories. Um, like I, I, um, You know, spent some time with a guy named Adam Wade. He's, I think, you know, he's, he's run the grand slam at the moth for, I don't know, six to eight times, incredible storyteller. Um, and, um, I met him once at a, at a deli in Lower East Side of New York.

Milo: And we spent three hours together talking about story. And he was just, for me, I was wondering, why are you such a good storyteller as I sort of listened to him. And, and, and for me, it was really that. He was so vulnerable. He was so able to just open himself up to being, you know, just naked in front of an audience and showing how weak he was or, or how, you know, human he was.

Milo: And I think that because he was able to do that, I think he was able to bring people in because I think people almost projected themselves in [00:14:00] him. Because he almost became a symbol of their own vulnerabilities. Uh, and I think that was, I think that's sort of part of, of what made him such a good storyteller.

Milo: Also, he just had great rhythm, great pacing, and he just knew the mechanics of it as well. Right. I don't think he was just off the cuff telling stories. I think he did think about it, like writing a song or, Or, you know, writing a book, I think there's, there's certain, you know, ways to pace yourself and, and, and, and, you know, to have different rhythms and, and, and take, you know, turns at corners.

Milo: So I think he's, he's, he was just a master storyteller.

Soleil: I love the moth. I grew up listening to

Soleil: Yeah,

Milo: Yeah.

Soleil: young, we would go on a lot of road trips. And you know, at that point of the road trip where you're just like, Oh my gosh, I don't want to listen to another song. This is getting like,

Soleil: sick of listening to music.

Soleil: family [00:15:00] would always turn on the moth.

Milo: Right. Yeah.

Soleil: I just, That was almost another entrance for me into learning about other people and their stories

Milo: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm.

Soleil: for telling other people's stories and the reason why I kind of bring that up also is because feel as though we live in a world where we're telling stories less. We have so much content and yet, you know, there's these very niche places like The Moth where you can find stories, but overall you have to search for stories now.

Milo: Well, I mean, I, I, I don't, I, I think it's an interesting observation. I don't know if there's a lack of stories or a, or a decline in, in stories. Um, I think there's just so much content that, uh, so much saturation that it's hard to [00:16:00] find the good stuff, right? I think it's, That's, that's the challenge. Like, if you know where to go, you'll find it.

Milo: But otherwise, if you're death scrolling or doom scrolling or, you know, swiping and wiping, I mean, you're, you're, it's, you're not going to be able to have the sort of, the patience or the, or the presence of mind. To sort of sit through a good story, right? Um, I mean a good story, you know, I think there's, there's so much content out there, but, and it's so prescriptive, so formulaic and it feels that right.

Milo: It feels like, okay, you know, it feels like a formula. And as it feels like a formula, you're essentially, you know, showing the scaffolding of your story as opposed to letting that all fall away and let it come out organically. I think that that's probably something that's That's missing, right? Because I think most of us are just trying to [00:17:00] find ways to, to pull people in and, and, and convert people as, as quickly as possible, have them be our subscribers, or, you know, download this link, or, you know, click to, to learn more.

Milo: So I think we're just I think we're just

Soleil: Okay.

Milo: from, you know, technology and just reconnect with individuals, reconnect with people. And, and, and use story as sort of that conduit as that way of connecting with each other.

Milo: I think like when you go to a, a moth, um, live, um, uh, event, it's, it's, it's so powerful, right? It's much more powerful than when you listened to it on the radio, right? If you go to one of these events, I mean, I've been to a few in New York and. You know, you're, you're surrounded by people. like you or that share [00:18:00] similar interests and values.

Milo: And there's something beautiful about community that makes stories much more powerful. And I, I, you don't feel it when you're listening on the radio, but there's such a, the, the connection between audience and speaker and storyteller. It's so strong because everyone's sort of supportive, right? Because they know how difficult it is to sort of stand up there, sort of, you know, telling true stories without notes or just stories without notes.

Milo: I think it was true stories, but true stories without notes, I think is, is such a powerful idea. And, and, you know, It's so, it's in many ways, it's, it's, it's, um, it's like going to confessional, right? You know, people, you know, it's, it's cathartic, it's, it's therapeutic, probably more so than that. Um, so I, I think, I think we need more of that.

Milo: I think we need more of that, that sort of communal approach and [00:19:00] using a new story as a way to sort of make that happen.

Soleil: Yeah, and even as you were mentioning earlier, the reason why you love stories is because of your mother and the connection you had with her and, you know, that kind of built the seed inside of you to start telling good stories. It wasn't, I mean, I mean, it wasn't through the internet, you know, so. Making that connection with storytelling outside of the internet seems to be like an important piece of garnering a better understanding of how we can better tell our stories both through to our Family our friends and also through our content if we are making content Yeah,

Milo: Yeah, I agree with that. I don't know what, what I can add to that, but I think [00:20:00] it's, um, I think, um, yeah, I think we need more of it. And I think we need more people to be able to tell their stories, um, and have the, the, the tools to do so. Right. Um, whether it's, whether it's a person, whether it's a brand, what, what have you, I think the ability to tell good stories is going to become, I think, more important now as we sort of move into this sort of, this age of AI.

Milo: Right. where, you know, I think it's, we're going to get lost in that. I think, I think it's, I don't know if it's going to suck our souls dry, but I think it is going to, um, it's going to have a negative effect on our humanity. Right. And I think, When we think about our stories, when I, when we tell our stories, when we start to sort of lay out our stories, we start to really think deeply about them.

Milo: We start to really feel them. Um, [00:21:00] and if we feel them, then others will feel them. And I think again, just as I said, the stories are a conduit for, for community, but it's also a conduit for connecting with our own emotions, right? Our own pasts, our own presence. Um, so I, I think story is, is such an important thing and so powerful for the future.

Soleil: yeah, I didnwant to touch base on AI a little bit as well. I had an article yesterday

Milo: hmm.

Soleil: I'm not going to be able to quote it exactly,

Milo: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Soleil: it's going to be available to everybody as it is now. For the most part, everybody has access to AI, but the people who are going to do the best with AI are the people who are going to be creative with it.

Milo: Mm hmm.

Soleil: And that is [00:22:00] going to be the difference between people who do good things with AI and people who don't know how to use AI. For you personally, I know you've talked about Aristotle and different philosophers and storytellers in the past. are you using AI in order to maintain your creativity and also your ability to storytell without the being the AI in your life?

Soleil: Have fun!

Milo: I, I think, um, you can use AI

Milo: learn so many things that you would never have learned before.

Soleil: my next

Milo: Uh, you know, in studying

Milo: different philosophers and different thinkers and different authors who have

Milo: studied and written on the subject of, of story and story structure, the mechanics, the anatomy, you, you inevitably will come [00:23:00] across new.

Milo: People new thinking new ways of approaching story, um, it's almost become sort of overwhelming how many different ways of approaching story. There are, um, by using a are you able to sort of. wrangle that, right? You're able to, you know, you're, you're able to explore it, uh, in ways that are sort of novel. Um, you're able to sort of, like, for instance, I'll give you an example.

Milo: Like, um, the other day I was working with, um, Christopher Brooks's idea of the seven, Um, and most people will probably just take their story and choose one plot type, right? And just go with it. And they don't have the time or the energy to sort of see how their, their story might manifest if they chose a different plot [00:24:00] type, right?

Milo: So I can in a matter of seconds, take a story and say, well, let's, let's use a different plot type. You know, overcoming the monster or rags to riches or, you know, what have you, you have various different story shapes, which sort of the Kurt Vonnegut idea of the shape of story, you can have the shape of story and plots and you can just do them differently.

Milo: And what happens is you start to your starting points in your story are different. But you're doing it very quickly and you start to realize, like, what is the, where is the best place to start my story? Do I start high or do I start low? Do I start medium? Where do I go with that based on certain plot structures?

Milo: So I, I think, I think that allows you to do that, right? And, and there was another thing that I was looking at is, Um, I was sort of, uh, looking at, uh, a founder's story the other day and, and, you [00:25:00] know, I, I was looking at how their story had emotion, where the emotions were, where, because in, in the Natya Shastra, there's this idea of sandhis, which are sort of junctures, right?

Milo: They're jun, they're emotional junctures in stories. Right. And actually, it's not in stories for, for, for, for the Nathya Shastra, it was really about, um, emotional junctures for in performance, but essentially, you're going to have different emotions at different points. And what they were able to do in the Nathya Shastra, is identify the emotions, right?

Milo: Whether it's love, hate, you know, disgust, what have you, and say, what is the emotion here? What is the emotion here? What is the emotion here? So you start to think about, okay, if I'm looking at this story, this story that this, this um, founder has given me, how do I map out the emotional shifts in the story?

Milo: And then I can also say, well, [00:26:00] okay, I'm looking at this, these emotional shifts based on the Natya Shastra, 2000 year old text. Um, that had, you know, very clearly defined emotional, um, junctures and say, are these good junctures? Are these good emotions? This is the right emotions, you know, and you may even find that there's, it lacks emotion.

Milo: It lacks emotion, emotional shift because every good story has to shift. It can't just be one linear line. It has to go, it has to go somewhere. It has to go up. It has to go down. And that's the twist all about, right? So, and in those things, there's going to be. Shifts and junctures. And so if you're able to, so I can ask the AI to bring in, um, Christopher Brooks's seven plots.

Milo: I can bring in the emotional, uh, structure of Kurt Vonnegut's, uh, the shape of story. Then I can [00:27:00] bring in the emotional elements of the Natya Shastra and combine that into an analysis. And so how do you use AI? That's how I'm using AI today, particularly in that. Can I go further? Absolutely. Um, is it, am I using it to write stories?

Milo: Right now?

Milo: I think it's more important to use them to analyze stories. Obviously I think they can, they can write stories for you. And that's, that's something I'm also working on, but I think that, um, yeah, I think you just, it's allows you to do things that would take you forever to do in the past, or to require a level of knowledge that most people don't have.

Milo: Right. I mean, how studied are people on 2, 000 year old texts, for instance, right? Um, and coming from various cultures. I think it's, um, So I think [00:28:00] it's, I think AI is a beautiful thing, but I also think it's an incredibly dangerous thing. I think it can also just put us in the backseat of our lives. It puts us in the backseat of story.

Milo: Um, and I think that's, that's wrong. I think we need to lean in with our emotions and sense what is the emotion here that I'm trying to go for? Because I think otherwise we're just, I don't know. I think we're just going to be doomscrolling for the rest of our existence.

Soleil: Yeah, agreed. Very much. Great. And did you find, uh, what did you call them? Emotional points.

Milo: Yeah. The, the Sandys. Yeah.

Soleil: Yeah. Did you find the Sandy's and that founder story

Milo: Yeah, no, there are, there were Sandys. I mean, she, her story was, it was a good story. Um, there's other, other challenges, um, with it, but, um, You know, I, for me, I'm working with, um, I'm very interested in, in working with, uh, [00:29:00] Asian American brands that have a cultural component to it. Uh, and yet the, the challenge is bridging the divide between being culturally conscious and universally relevant.

Milo: very much. And I think that's sort of a challenge that these brands have, and I would like to find a way to sort of bridge that. So you have culturally conscious brands that are also universally relevant. So you can kind of cross that divide and break out of the sort of the so called Asian aisle in the supermarket.

Milo: Well,

Soleil: and how are you finding that balance? Yes.

Milo: I mean, it's, it's a, it's a question of, How much you want to lean into who you are as, uh, you know, ethnically, racially, um, culturally, [00:30:00] uh, do you want to really sort of proudly, unapologetically say that I am Asian? Or do you want to say, yes, I'm Asian, but I want to connect with you. I want to connect with a larger audience.

Milo: I want to be broad. And I think it's, it's, it's, it depends. It depends on, on the founder. Uh, it depends on their ambition. It depends on their intent. Why did you do this? Why did you create this product? Did you create this product for, as a. as a point of pride or did you, a point of integration or, or what?

Milo: Right. So I think, I think, uh, it really, it's a very personal thing. It's a very personal decision. What do you, what do you want to do? Do you want your brand to be universally accepted or do you want it to be very niche and, and, and, and, you know, limited. So

Milo: that's, that's really the question for these brands.

Soleil: And when you're helping these brands [00:31:00] create these, these stories and finding that balance, are you utilizing AI for these?

Milo: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like I, as I said, I mean, you know, I will sort of, you know, interrogate, um, I will interrogate their stories from a wide variety of angles. Right. I think, I think that's, so I think with AI, it shouldn't be that you are doing, you are letting it do what you would otherwise do. That's not where we should be going with it.

Milo: We should be going to really, um, novel places with it. We should be going places where we, we are too scared, too tired, too exhausted to actually take it. Right. The point is that I think AI is, I mean, you know, Microsoft calls it, calls it the co pilot, but I think of it as this, right? It's sort of like, [00:32:00] um, the analogy I use is that of an, you know, an elevator to the top of a mountain.

Milo: You know, AI is that elevator that takes you there, but, you know, you don't stop there just because you're at the top of the mountain. That means now you can go somewhere higher, right? You can go, you can go further. And if all you want to do is get to the top of the mountain, then, you know, I mean, that's fine.

Milo: What we should be doing with AI is now starting at a much higher point, uh, you know, and, and going further. Right? That should be the goal of, of AI is not to just, you know, be mediocre and just let it do our thinking, but it should be there to make us go even further than we have ever gone before. I feel like this is like, um, Star Trek.

Milo: I, you know, I, I agree. I mean, I, I [00:33:00] mean, I think so. I mean, I think that's, that's what we should be doing. I don't think we always do that, but I think we should try to go a lot further with it. You know, it should be our bionic arm, you know?

Soleil: Yeah, absolutely. And I find myself even sometimes just relying on AI. I was actually talking to my dad about this yesterday, funny enough, but, uh, we were just talking about how sometimes it's so easy to just utilize AI to just be like, Oh, I'm so tired. Just, let me just create this thing for me.

Milo: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Soleil: it to like, do these things, because it just makes our life so much simple, and it's almost [00:34:00] harder to say, Okay, ChatGBT, Clod, whatever you may be using, can you, I want to give you these points. Can you put in the Sandis or what are some good Sandis that I could use or you

Milo: Um,

Soleil: for me

Milo: Right, right. Yeah, I think, um, I think your point is about the, the, the, you know, what is

Milo: What is our value as humans moving forward? I mean, I don't know if that was your point, but I think it does raise that question, right? Which is what is our value? Um, and I, I think Sam Altman may [00:35:00] have said it, or I don't know if it was Bezos, but anyway, someone said it and I agree, which is that the questions we ask, our ability to question things is, is going to become much more vital in the future.

Milo: I think. Um, we need to learn how to ask questions, uh, in the future. If we don't know how to ask questions, then we'll just become idiots walking around with AI glasses, moving us around the world. But I think, you know, we should have, we should have, you know, college level courses, high school level courses, just on the study of questions.

Milo: How do you ask questions? How do you question things? Right? I think that's, that's important. And, and I think then. It also, um, brings up the idea of like, curiosity, how do I instill a sense of curiosity in people? And maybe we can't. Maybe it's just some people are [00:36:00] curious and others aren't. And you just, that's, that's just the way the, the chips fall in life, right?

Milo: Some people are curious and the people who are curious are the ones who are going to, uh, successfully, uh, wield, Uh, A. I. Um, obviously, curiosity isn't enough. Obviously, there has to be some sort of motivation or intent. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think the questions and then the question is, how do you know what questions to ask?

Milo: I think you do need a considerable amount of knowledge in order to ask better questions, right? Um, I think there is value in, in the wise old man, right, because he's been through so much, he's experienced so much, he knows what questions to ask, right? Um, so I do think that, I think, you know, the focus on questions will be far more important as we move [00:37:00] forward.

Soleil: Yeah. And do you think that's the key to these questions is experience?

Milo: Well, I, you know, I, I think, I think, you know, experienced people and inexperienced people are going to come through, come at things differently. Right? I mean, there's one that comes from, you know, understanding the nuances. The other one comes from, you know, being naive. Um, so I think, I think coming together, uh, to work on things, it would be invaluable.

Milo: Yeah. Um, I don't think it's just experience, I think sometimes inexperience will be, will be helpful. I mean, a lot of the, um, I, I think a lot of the great, um, inventions, uh, have come from people who have no experience, have tripped over things, um, right? So I, I think it, it works both [00:38:00] ways.

Soleil: Yeah, very true.

Milo: But how do you trip over things? How do you, how do you deliberately trip over things? I think that's, that's, that's something that's worth considering.

Soleil: Yeah. How do you create hardship in your life in order to, you know, maybe not even hardship is not the right, but like, how do you build a life for yourself where you can start saying, okay, I have experience and, uh, I think, at least for me, when I think about that question, I think about what we were talking about earlier, which is stepping away from doom scrolling and getting reintegrated with chatting with the person at the bagel shop or at the grocery store,

Soleil: you know, like that's, that is, the experience doesn't have to be a hardship.

Soleil: The experience be derived from the simple interactions that you gain throughout your day.

Milo: absolutely. And I think, you know, what you're doing now, I [00:39:00] mean, being that digital nomad moving around. South America. I mean, and who knows where you're heading after that? I think it's incredibly important. I mean, when I was younger, I did a lot of traveling, perhaps too much. I think. I mean, I only recently came back to the U.

Milo: S. After being away for 15 years. Um, but I think it's incredibly important. to have that experience. And I don't think you're going to get that experience just by listening to the experiences of others. Maybe you will, uh, if you're, and I think there's different, different types of people learn differently.

Milo: Right? Some people just will be, you know, the good student and whatever, you know, the teacher says, they will adopt and say, that's right, and I will follow that. Whatever their parents say, they will adopt and they will just follow. And there's going to be a large group of people who's like, fuck that. I can't do that.

Milo: I need to experience it myself. I need to, [00:40:00] I need to feel the pain. I need to feel the joy. I need to feel it all before I can believe it. Right? I need to live it. I need to experience it. It needs to be real for me. I Because everything else is just academic, it's just theoretical until I really feel it, unless, until I, I fall down, break my leg, you know, and, um, have heartache and, and pain.

Milo: I don't know, but it's not to say that we should all suffer. I don't think that we all do anyway. I mean, we are anyway, right? I mean, even if we're, you know, there's so much loneliness in this country, if not this world, I mean, I don't know if that's a good thing, but in terms of experience, I think people just shut down anything that opens us up.

Milo: I think that's, what's important, right? Cause there, there are things that just close us down. And I think, I think doom scrolling just closes us down. It doesn't open us up. It takes us, it takes, it takes away our sense of optimism. Um, [00:41:00] and I think we need optimism. We need openness to be able to explore to, to, to discover new things, right?

Soleil: absolutely. thank you so much, Milo. I have, I have one more question for you.

Milo: Mhm.

Soleil: I was doing some research before this podcast and I came across a really interesting question that was asked to a few different other storytellers. And I know you don't consider yourself a storyteller, but I'm just so intrigued by, by your answer to this question. Why do you tell stories?

Milo: Why do I tell stories? Well, I mean, I tell stories mostly in the context of, you know, pitches or presentations. And I tell stories because that is the way to connect with people. That is the way to get over the challenge of logic sometimes. Um, I, I think we're, we're [00:42:00] emotional creatures and I think stories allow us to connect with people, connect with each other, um, and help us to understand each other and understand points better than, you know, pure logic, pure facts.

Milo: It's not enough. I mean, Aristotle talked about logos, ethos, and pathos, pathos being emotion, logos being sort of logic. and, and ethos being sort of authority. But I think it's, it's, it's bringing those three together through story is a powerful way to persuade. It's a powerful way to change minds. And I think that's, that's why I tell stories.

Milo: And that's why I think I enjoy hearing stories because I'm constantly hoping to evolve as a human being.

Soleil: Well, that's great. Thank [00:43:00] you so much, Milo. I have had just such a pleasure talking to you about stories and the way that we can continue to tell better stories. Um, and it has really been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. Awesome.

Milo: It was, it was nice speaking with you as well.

Soleil: Awesome. Thank you. And that's a wrap on this episode of Sweat, Strategy, and Success. We covered a lot from the timeless power of storytelling to the evolving role of AI and how culture shapes the way we connect. Whether you're crafting a brand, building a business, or just looking to tell your own story more authentically, I hope this conversation sparked something for you.

Soleil: Big thank you to Milo Chao for bringing his insights and wisdom to the table. If you enjoyed today's episode, do me a favor. Hit that follow button, share it with a friend, and leave a review. It helps more than you know. And if you want more strategy, storytelling, and success driven insights, connect with me on LinkedIn, TikTok, or Instagram.

Soleil: As always, keep [00:44:00] pushing, keep learning, and keep writing your own story. I'll see you next Wednesday.