soleil-rain_2_09-06-2024_142132: [00:00:00] Hi Adam,

adam-manilla_1_09-06-2024_132133: Hey, Soleil.

_1_08-08-2024_161639: Hi, Jenny,

jenny_1_08-08-2024_181638: Hello.

Soleil: Hi, Linda.

Linda Melone: How are you, Soleil?

Soleil: Hi, Erika.

Erika Manilla: Hello.

video1817824343: Hi, Eddie. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. And you

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Soleil: Today we are joined by the magnificent Lacey Henderson. Lacey is a Paralympian speaker model and certified mental performance coach. Now she works as the mental performance coach for the Portland Timbers, developing the team's philosophy and application to enhance high performance player [00:02:00] leadership, development, execution, and overall wellbeing.

Soleil: Hi Lacey. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Lacey: I am doing quite lovely on this sunny Portland day.

Soleil: Gorgeous. I'm so excited for you, and thank you so much for joining me. This is a dream come true for me. My favorite show ever is Ted Lasso, so I feel like you're kind of living out my Ted Lasso dreams a little bit. Right now, working with the Portland Timbers, how is it feeling, being working with a new team?

Lacey: You know, that's so funny that you bring up Ted Lasso gets brought up to me all the time. Um, I've yet to watch it. And I recently met Jason Sudeikis and Christo Fernandez, who does, who's Danny Rojas at this event, um, this past November. And it's been on my to-do list, but I, but what I'm gathering is like I could be Ted Lasso.

Lacey: Um. could.

Lacey: I, I might be Ted Lasso, who knew? Um, [00:03:00] it's been an interesting journey. This is, um, their mental performance coach. So essentially that's non-clinical sports psychology, so I'm not diagnosing anybody. We're not doing clinical interventions, but it is overall mental health and mental performance care for the, uh, first team men's athletes. And, um, it's a new position for the team. It's a relatively new in the, in the industry, professional sports in general, but definitely within the MLS as a league. Um, but sports psychology has been around forever because psychology has been around forever. And that's because we have. You know, the stories we're telling ourselves about ourselves every day, and that's essentially psychology.

Lacey: But, um, it's been a, it's been a lot of growth. I came from a private practice before getting this position um, being integrated into a team is like, you know, it's finding the, the routines of like, how do we integrate mental performance and mental health into systems that are already working? And also what I'm learning with professional men, from a variety of different cultures and [00:04:00] languages is like, how are we trying to get everybody on the same page as far as mental health literacy? Um, which has been very different with my professional athletes, especially working with female professional athletes. Um, I would say the like knowledge and comfort level, just around language of our psychological experiences are a little different. So it's been a lot of growth, a lot of learning, um, and a lot of like finding new ways of applying, um, applying theories and systems for this specific population.

Soleil: In your work with this team, are you noticing that there's a large gap of mental health literacy.

Lacey: Oh yeah,

Lacey: I think in general, like just culturally, right, men are not told to be curious about their emotional experiences. Like you are, are really allowed to have limited experiences emotionally as a man in society.

Lacey: And it's like anger, um, frustration, um, and, I don't know, maybe some, maybe happiness depending on how you're raised.

Lacey: And this is [00:05:00] also now. Compounded with a mixture of cultures. I like to kind of separate some of our, like, team identity as like Northern Hemisphere is Southern hemisphere. So ironically my southern hemisphere guys I think are more open to about their emotional experiences, like coming from their perspective.

Lacey: But the Northern Hemisphere is also like very buttoned up, like mentally tough only means one thing. A little bit more rigid, I think as far as like approaches and application, learning about mental health at a deeper level. Um, but then also like our, our, like the way that we've been reared growing up. So Northern hemisphere guys like growing up in sports systems.

Lacey: Really formal kind of professional settings earlier in life. And then like my southern hemisphere like a lot of it informal, a lot of play, a lot of, but a lot of pressure, right? When you get to the professional, professional level. Like it's not just you that you're carrying through the team. So it's been very, very dynamic for sure.

Soleil: And I'd love to hear more about your journey to becoming a [00:06:00] mental performance coach. Where did you grow up?

Lacey: Oh my gosh, yeah. It's been, it's been quite the journey. Um, I am originally from Denver, Colorado, um, and I've lived a bunch of different places. Um, from being a, an athlete myself, I was a Paralympian, um, in the sport of track and field. I did long jump. and had trained from, from places all over, from like Phoenix to, um, I was in, oh my gosh, now I can't remember any names right now either.

Lacey: Today

Soleil: Of course,

Soleil: that's how it always works, right?

Lacey: Exactly. I'm like, wow, where did that go? Um, Canborough Australia, the

Soleil: Okay. Oh, that's one.

Lacey: the Australian Institute of Sport. Um, when I was in school, I also lived in Buenos based in Argentina, and um, lived in Texas, lived in Austin for a while for training, um, was over, now I'm in Portland, back in Denver for a little bit.

Lacey: So kind of bipping and bopping all over the place primarily, um, for sport. So that already

Lacey: geographically has been a lot.

Soleil: Yeah, [00:07:00] definitely. Is that common in sport to jump around so much?

Lacey: I think it depends on the sport itself, but like for most sports you do see like a lot of athletes just like as far as resources, training resources, um, whether, if you're an outdoor sport, like a lot of people will just kind of like hop around in their career. Um, I definitely see that in professional men's sports as well in women's sports when you get traded to team, stuff like that.

Lacey: It's just kind of a part of the bag when you, when it comes to pro sports.

Soleil: And has sportsmanship always been a part of your life since you were a kid?

Lacey: That's an interesting question. Yeah, I would say so. Like I think the idea of sportsmanship, like has evolved and changed over the years. Um, but I come from an athletic family. My dad went to Olympic trials for pole vaulting, um, in the, I wanna say early seventies. He's turning 80 this year. Uh, then he was a coach.

Lacey: He was a high level coach, collegiate and pro. Um, and then high school as well, uh, for like 40 years. So the idea of sports, the [00:08:00] idea of sportsmanship, winning, well losing, well, like all of that has kind of been in the periphery. There wasn't a lot of explicit language, I think on like the experience of like, is sportman sportsmanship?

Lacey: Where does it come from? Why does it matter? Um, but I think like the general idea of that has definitely been in, in my life forever.

Soleil: I see. So for you, there's a difference between athleticism and sportsmanship. These are two different words.

Lacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Lacey: It's so funny. Yeah. When you grow up in like the sport landscape, you're like, of course. So yeah, I would see like athleticism as far as like what is the physical ability, like how coordinated am I when I'm doing specific sport tasks, right? Like, that's like at the athleticism, and I see sportsmanship kind of as like, what is my response to my athleticism?

Lacey: So like, how am I, where is my, like, emotional regulation when things don't go well? And also when things do go well, how am I interacting with other athletes around me that are, I'm either competing with or competing [00:09:00] against? Um, that's kind of probably how I would organize the two.

Soleil: I see. And for you, with sportsmanship, especially as a Paralympian, how has sportsmanship played a part of your journey so far?

Lacey: Oh yeah. I mean, I, it's been, I don't, it's not, it's definitely not been linear. I will say that first. I think like I. Especially in the world of Paralympics.

Lacey: I am an above the knee amputee. I lost my leg to cancer, um, when I was nine, right before I turned 10.

Lacey: So in the Paralympics landscape, I think from the outside looking in, you know, a lot of it is like feel good, right?

Lacey: Sport is the equalizer. Um, you know, like an event where people who faced hardships right, can still reach the highest level. And then I would say like on the inside, like Paralympics, especially the Paralympic landscape, like we are pretty much the redheaded stepchild of professional sports. So there's like resources as far as like, how are we paying our bills?

Lacey: [00:10:00] How are we getting our, like, sports specific equipment covered? Um, and then if you have like competitors, like especially in track and field, like you, you make teams, but you're never really teammates. So there's this like intercom competitiveness on top of like. A lot of the sponsorship, a lot of the dollars even now with like land, with the landscape of social media, like a lot of the money in para specific stuff comes from the stories, comes from the disability acquisition.

Lacey: So it's like this weird inner competitiveness of the sport of like who's disability story is more, you know, like heart grabbing, like who can make more money off their story? Um, who's disability, who's more affected by their disability? And so there's like this kind of like constant struggle, especially for the female athletes in my experience, I think more than the male athletes.

Lacey: And that's just dominant culture, right? Women are just pitted against each other, regular. Um, so there's like this interesting. Like outward [00:11:00] sportsmanship, right? Like, oh, I'm so glad to be here. We're so grateful that we have experiences like this disabilities growing in the greater culture, yada, yada, yada.

Lacey: But then there's also this internal, like, I can't believe so and so got this, like one coveted sponsorship because the, there is so much scarcity still, um, in that greater landscape. So, there's layers, there's definitely layers to that for sure. And that's not unique. Like there's unique aspects of that in Parasport.

Lacey: But I think as far as sports that are like less glamorized, professional sports that are not broadcasted, not in kind of like the more mainstream culture, like we see iterations and parallels of that all over the place.

Soleil: Yeah. And how does that make you feel?

Lacey: It, you know what, it, it took the glimmer out of sports, I think, for me,

Lacey: time because coming into sports, I kind of fell into Paralympics. There wasn't really jobs happening. Um, when I graduated undergrad and I was a competitive cheerleader before, I was not planning on being an athlete as a career for as long as I did. [00:12:00] Um,

Lacey: and so like still being relatively new in my young twenties, you know, there's this idea that it was still kind of like this happy, unifying thing. Like, we are great athletes, we've overcome so much. And then, you know, looking behind the curtains, it's like, it is, you know, there's a lot of inequities in sports.

Lacey: Like, there's not, there's, there's people who are lucky and there's people that are unlucky. Like it's not always about, um. I would say, I wouldn't say merit, but it's not always about like who's the highest performer, right? The numbers have to fall in your favor sometimes in order to be successful. Um, and that's really, that's a, that's a hard grasp.

Lacey: And so I think I had my, my relationship with sport as far as like, what, what kind of mechanism it was serving for me and what I thought it served for, the greater culture has changed. It has shifted. Um, there's plenty of like, uh, some light corruption like, you know, that's happening in, in professional sports.

Lacey: We've seen it kind of on the bigger stage in NFL, the Liv, the live golf stuff that was [00:13:00] happening it just a few years ago, um, commercialization and, and capitalism quickly enters the picture, right? It becomes about bottom line and, um, and that, that there's a maturity that I needed to like, kind of grow into, I think to be able to hold that both can exist at the same time and that it's not. Always personal. It's hard, right? When you're the athlete because it is personal. That's your whole, like, I would've, I would've done some, some crazy things to make some teams, I'm sure, like back in the day, um, because it was so, so important. But it's also knowing that, you know, there's a game outside of the game that's happening.

Lacey: And so like being able to accept and be at peace with kind of this contradiction that you have to hold all the time as an athlete.

Soleil: And when you think you started to find that maturity in your sportsmanship,

Lacey: I would say most athletes have the experience where they're forced into like growing or going away from it.

Lacey: I would say [00:14:00] like, that was probably around the time, like when I was actively seeking my own mental health help. I was working with a sports psychologist and like I was doing pretty well, I was turning in a pro group, um, and then like, you know, still performing well.

Lacey: I had the American record and then like not making teams for like. A really arbitrary team selection criteria. Stuff where, you know, the numbers just didn't fall in your favor. And it's, it's hard, like, it doesn't mean maturing and growing and accepting doesn't mean that it doesn't come with a lot of pain.

Lacey: And um, that was also like, consequently I was having a lot of family stuff. My parents were divorcing and I was in my late twenties and kind of weird how that was showing up in like weird ways with my performance and still kind of dealing with some emotional residual stuff from cancer in general. Um, so it was really like when I was working with a sports psychologist at that time that I was like, lot of things can exist.

Lacey: We don't always need to like, measure them or place judgment on them. Um, and really. [00:15:00] That was the, like, that was when I realized it was a choice, right? Like, I could choose to still be in sports or I could choose something else. And for a really long time, like while I was learning that while I was growing with it, that was all I wanted to do.

Lacey: Um, and it is, it's interesting 'cause like as we're always growing as people, and that's the same for athletes, right? I think the greater society looks at a famous athlete and like they want them to stay this one person forever. And, um, and there's tension. There's tension when that, that doesn't happen because we're, we're never gonna be the same.

Lacey: Um, we get, life changes us all the time. Um, but I would say like, when I was really becoming curious about the psychological experience I was having was when I, I started growing with that.

Soleil: I think the idea that a good sport, you know, you always hear that like, oh, be a good sport. You know, like, uh, like there's, I heard that a lot of times growing up like, oh, so they just like be a good sport. But when it comes to athletics, it can be really hard when you're facing so [00:16:00] many challenges left and right.

Soleil: And like you said, so many people look at athletes and don't expect them to have their own personal lives going on. Right. You're expected to sus succeed no matter what. Does that resonate in your experience as an athlete?

Lacey: For sure. I think like when like society is looking at an athlete, like our brains are very comfortable when we can organize things and when we know what to expect. And so like when we see athlete on tv, right? Like that is the only role they play in our lives. And like when they come out and like they say something that. It isn't necessarily has anything to do with sport, but because sport is like such an interesting career choice because it is a 24 7 type job, um, there's like this, this tangling of things that happen and it's really upsetting, right? Because like then it's, it's betraying this way that we've organized people into our system, right?

Lacey: They didn't ask for that. But it's the way that [00:17:00] like, we decide to look at people and that's not unique to athletes. That's in our relationships. That's, you know, the mail person, the, the person you interact with in the grocery. That's just how brains work. Um, I think like, it, it. It was like I was doing that to myself.

Lacey: You know, like I think a lot of athletes, especially younger athletes, do that to themselves, right? Like, this is the only thing that's important. This is the only thing that I can, that I can be good at that will prove that I'm successful. And so like, there has to be an opening and there has to be a grace where you can be a lot of different things because sport inevitably is one of the shortest careers you can choose for yourself. Um. Oftentimes the career ends not by choice, um, by injury, by contract changes, things like by life, right? And so there's like,

Lacey: there has to be an opening of growth to be a dynamic person, to allow yourself have other experiences and even the bad experiences that come with sport because like right, be a [00:18:00] good sport, but like you don't make a team or you don't lose, like there's physiological reactions that happen when we lose in matches and when we lose in games and when we lose contracts and lose business, like it's threatening, it's a threat.

Lacey: Um, and so there's, there's just a lot that that is happening all at once. And when we try to organize it in these binary systems that our brain just feels comfortable doing, it's, it's confusing. It's, it's just contradictory. It's really, really hard.

Soleil: Yeah. Absolutely. And would you say this is some of the largest challenges that an athlete will face during their career? These mental challenges, or what other challenges that are big that face athletes during these, during your career?

Lacey: Uh, yeah, I think Big Stones is like, how am I gonna make this work? Right? Like, it's like, what, what that money looked like, what my bank account gonna look like, but how can I afford this? Um, and that's like for sports that are not like more mainstream sports. And then like Yeah, a lot of it is is like [00:19:00] avoiding the burnout of being like, this is the only value I contribute.

Lacey: Right? Because like, when we have injuries, which is inevitable being an athlete or a person, um. You know, it, it's threatening to the identity. And uh, and the same thing with like, if I don't make this team, if I don't, whatever, like it's all very threatening. And a lot of that comes down to this idea of perfectionism as well, of like, if I don't perform perfect, if I'm not doing X, Y, Z in front of coach at training, then then X, y, Z might happen.

Lacey: And like, so anxiety comes in and like all this like self-judgment, self-assessment, so much stuff is out of your, is out of your control as an athlete, as a human person, but definitely as an athlete. And so like being able to manage what is in your control and, and have acceptance for things that are out of your control.

Lacey: I think those are essentially like when we whittle it down to the emotion regulation, that's really what it comes down to.

Soleil: And you said you used to be a professional cheerleader, right? And then that kinda moved on into doing long jump. [00:20:00] Was this pressure long jump right.

Lacey: Yeah. You

Soleil: Okay.

Lacey: I was a collegiate cheer. I cheered in high school, competitively cheered in college. We did some competition and then, yeah, and then found my way into a dirty sand pit in long jump.

Soleil: What was that? What was, I'm curious, what was that journey like? You know, going from cheerleading to long jump because it is you, you wouldn't expect to find the two to be complimentary, I guess.

Lacey: Yeah. Most people don't take that. Uh, don't take that route. Um, I,

Lacey: so after I lost my leg, it was 1999. I'm a woman of a certain age now. Um, and shortly thereafter, um, another life-changing event happened to me, and that was when the movie Bring It On came out, the original one, and I was like. Yeah, those girls are so cool.

Lacey: They do flips like, I'm like, that, that is so cool. I wanna do flips. So, um, I've, I am athletic and so my, and I, I was really privileged to come from a supportive family. That's like, whatever you wanna do, we'll figure it out. Just tell us where we drop you off. Like essentially like, we'll figure it out. Just [00:21:00] let us know what time and where we drop you off.

Lacey: So, um, in competitive cheer, there's a lot of gymnastics, like floor tumbling involved and, um, I guess acrobatics as far as like stunting. So, um, there's not a lot of like people really paying bills being a professional cheerleader, uh, out of undergrad. So I kind of fell into this, it was like the first worst recession of all time and kind of got into like this like cheeky bet with my dad, um, over like. If I could learn a pole vault and because, you know, I'm an above the knee amputee, he's like, listen, Lacey, like you would never be fast enough. You're not strong enough. Like you couldn't jump two feet, which first of all two feet is like the most disrespectful height in the world. So what is that? It's like, it's like three quarters of a meter.

Lacey: Like, get outta here. Um, and uh, and that was like, so sorry. I'm like, my wow, what, what math choice I just made there? Um,

Soleil: I know,

Lacey: but uh,

Soleil: I, I feel like it was somewhat close. I'll go with it.

Soleil: people.

Lacey: That was a, that was standard and metric 0.75 meters. [00:22:00] Um, and, uh. family, like at that time in my life, it was like, you know, the fuel that I needed.

Lacey: I'm 21 years old, like, you can't tell me anything. I know it all right. Like when we've all been in our young 20, you know, everything. Like no one can convince you otherwise. And uh, and only my family would've access to like a pole vault, pit and poles the next day. Right. Because of his experiences. Um, so I had actually started track pole vaulting.

Lacey: Um, it's not an event in para. Um, and that is probably a conversation for another time of like, again, like the bureaucracy of choosing sport events in within this system. but like with para, with the Paralympic system, you have certain events for certain disability classifications and like women of course have less than men.

Lacey: And then like depending on disability class, there's even less than that. So for the type of disability I have in my gender, um, there's only two events. So it was the a hundred meters or long jump. And so I raced for a really long time and like, I was fine. I was not that fast. I was, I had a good [00:23:00] starts, but I was, you know, terrible finishes.

Lacey: I was like, very average. and I had avoided long jump because I was a cheerleader and I didn't wanna get dirty and like the sand was dirty and yucky. Right? Like, and so, uh, in an ironic way. Yeah. Like, I had avoided it. Um, no one likes stand in your shoes, like even long. Like, it's just a, it's a terrible feeling.

Lacey: Um, after a couple years, like the USA coaches were kind of trying to convince me to do long jump. I really wanted to do pole vault, right? But like, I couldn't change the world. That was really upsetting at 21 to find out,

Soleil: Ugh. the worst when you find out that you can't change the world? I know. Truly. Yeah.

Lacey: Um. Yeah, for a couple years I tried jumping within like the first year I broke a 17 year long American record, started making world teams like that.

Lacey: The gymnastics translated really well for the jumps. Um, and I knew that in pole vault, I just like didn't wanna get like wet sand on me all the time. And then when the performance, right, the performance of speaking for itself, like, it [00:24:00] kind of was like long jump chose me. Um, and then I was able to make a lot of teams do a lot, um, do a lot within that event because of like gymnastics translation.

Lacey: 'cause again, like I was okay with speed, but I was really, really a good technical jumper.

Soleil: Sounds like even then, this experience of transitioning from being a cheerleader to long jump had a lot of expectations from your dad, from yourself, from people around you. It, it, I think that's probably one of the most difficult. No, we, I think we talked about it a little bit before, is this expectation, like you can't jump more than than two feet.

Soleil: 'cause you know, you're.

Lacey: So rude. I jumped six feet that day, by the way. That was so disrespectful. Yeah.

Soleil: You know, how did, how did you deal with that, with those kinds of expectations during that transition?

Lacey: I don't know if I dealt with them. I'm like, I think like, I think at that time, like, [00:25:00] and just too, like in the greater culture, right? Like this idea of being like, tell me I can't, and I'll show you wrong. Like, you know, it was kind of that a little bit. Um, I think for me, like I, I was always a high performer in school.

Lacey: Like got really, really good grades, like did the most when it came to like extracurriculars, like struggling with that in my thirties, right? Trying to learn to say no, very hard. People pleasing essentially. Um, and so for me, I think it was like my expectations for myself were like so polar opposite.

Lacey: Like, I was gonna be a world record holder. I was gonna have all the sponsorships, I was gonna be famous, like, and so I think. As a way of managing it. Like I just kept chasing that high level, chasing the highest thing that I wanted for myself and like missing the point that like landing somewhere in the middle, like that there's a spectrum and it's okay to be like within a range rather than constantly, [00:26:00] constantly what you expect for yourself.

Lacey: Because there, you know, I didn't have the maturity and like the frontal lobe completion yet of like understanding that like, um, that high expectations, when you do that you are actually restricting what's possible too. Like

Lacey: you actually end up cutting off some of your potential because you're staying rigid only in one lane.

Lacey: Um, so it, it was a little bit of both, like sometimes I was pivoted, I was pivoting because I was forced to. Um, and then finding a way and then trying to like aim for the best. And I, I think that's natural, especially from high performers. Um, but I'm, you know, I missed a lot of the nice few while I was doing it.

Lacey: Um, and, and I was grateful that I was able to work with people that kind of helped me see that.

Soleil: Yeah. Yeah. This, this quote is so cheesy, but I love it so much. I even have a picture for when I was in like sixth grade with like this really cheesy fauna over it, and it's always like, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.

Lacey: For sure. Yeah. I mean it's

Soleil: It's, it holds so true, right?[00:27:00]

Lacey: Yeah, exactly. It, it really is. Like I've had this conversation with our head coach now at my job with the timbers and like, we wanna win. Like that's the thing is like, okay, we can't say that it's not about the outcome all the time, right? Because like, that's what sports are like.

Lacey: That's kind of the culture that we've all agreed to participate in. Uh, sometimes unwillingly, but whatever. Like that's like we are outcomes, bottom line culture, whatever. And so I think like it's like we need to. We just, that just needs to be understood and we, and we need to put more emphasis on the process.

Lacey: We do need to pay more attention to the journey because like when we have really good systems, when we have good habits, when we have good processes, like the outcome solves itself and there's, and sometimes it doesn't, right? Because like Refs and the other team and like life will come and like change your, change the plans.

Lacey: But it's like when you have good systems and good processes, like you can be happy about the performance, you can be really happy about how you did it. So when you arrive to wherever you arrived to, sure there's, there's sometimes disappointment [00:28:00] and you deal with it, but it also is like looking back and being like, damn, I did everything that I knew was what I needed and I'm proud of that performance and like, what's next?

Soleil: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I do wanna dive deeper into something you said earlier too, about how. F Keeping these expectations on yourself actually cut you off

Soleil: you know, achieving more. Possibly. Can you dive into that a little bit deeper for me? What does that mean?

Lacey: Yeah, I've, I've been kind of like trying to find good f like good frameworks around this idea, but I think, like, I have a lot of conversations, especially with my high achievers, um, on confidence, right? Like really, really high performers that don't feel confident. And a lot of it is, is like right, I'm not perfect, so I don't feel confident.

Lacey: My self-talk is crappy, whatever. and like when we kind of go through this and like we work on self-talk, we work on our processes, work on like the technical, [00:29:00] tactical aspects and our, as cnce grows, like, I think more often I've experienced like the,

Lacey: the thought of our hypothetical more confident selves often is different than like, what happens when we arrive there, right?

Lacey: Like when we think about like our, when we think about like the hypothetical version of our most confident self, it's almost like, like this like. Showboat, boisterous, like kind of like out, like Yeah, like talking shit. Like that's like, that's what confidence looks like. And then when you have done the work and you know you're good, like a lot of my athletes and when I was an athlete experiencing too, it's like confidence is often quiet.

Lacey: It's often just like handling what, and it's knowing that you can handle whatever comes at you. It's not about showboating, it's not about talking the loudest. It's about just like knowing that you have everything you need to get the job done.

Lacey: Um, and so that's kind of like where I'm thinking about, it's like when we put these expectations, like the expectation of what my confidence self looks [00:30:00] like versus when I arrive there often not the same person. so. I think like when we put expectations on these outcomes on like the contract that I want on this money or this job, like this team that I want, like one, we, we cut off what's possible, like we cut off good things that we don't even know exist yet because we're kind of siphoning ourself into only one aspect of it.

Lacey: And two, like it creates so many opportunities for disappointment because like when it doesn't hit that mark two like. Man that sucks like that. Really like I'm having a bad time. I signed to this team and now it's not what I thought. And like when we stay kind of like way too aligned with the expectation and that's not like an expectation is different from like a goal too.

Lacey: Like I'm like, we should make a distinction here too. It's not like you set goals for yourself and rigid, but it's like the expectation of the experience of who you will be when you get there, of what the team is, of who those people are.

Lacey: When we put [00:31:00] expectations, especially like at a human aspect, it just like, it creates entirely too many opportunities for disappointment and being upset and issues.

Soleil: Do you ever feel like the fear of not being perfect hinders you from completing projects or missing opportunities? In an exclusive episode of this podcast, Lacey goes over daily habit she uses for herself and for her athletes to help get out of perfection paralysis.

Speaker 6: This quick five minute episode arrives straight to your inbox when you sign up for the Sweat Strategy and Success Newsletter found in the description of this podcast.

Soleil: And bonus, this newsletter includes an even quicker to read summary of this exclusive content. If you don't have time, sign up for the Sweat Strategy and Success newsletter today to receive exclusive content on actionable strategies from CEOs to professional athletes on how to use their best tools so you can become the best version of yourself, both personally and [00:32:00] professionally.

Soleil: And tell me a little bit more about this emotional experience for you up until the Rio Olympics.

Lacey: Yeah. ooh girl? Yeah. So, um, yeah, so I'm like, you know, mid my mid early into mid to late-ish twenties. I dunno. I turned, what is it? I turned 26. My mom is like 26 is still mid twenties. I'm like, thanks mom. Um,

Soleil: I just turned 26 2 days ago.

Lacey: you into your mid, you are. That's what I said. I'm 35 now and I'm like, I am early 30. I'm still so young. I, it was a, you know, it was kind of a volatile emotional experience and a lot of it was 'cause I just didn't have good tools on handling performance, on handling success, on handling, uh, loss, like un handling life variables. Um, and, and you know, of course now like this, the psychology, the academic psychology person in me is like my frontal lobe, but also like a little bit my frontal lobe. [00:33:00] I, yeah, I, you know, I was like coming into this pro sport that really did, didn't have like a blueprint or a map, like para itself was still relatively new as far as like having, we had a pro circuit for a while that's kind of changed, um, what the training was supposed to look like. Like, like how we got there.

Lacey: Because performances at that point, were now starting to be like closer to the equivalent, depending on your disability category of like non-disabled athletes. And so really was like a new frontier. A lot of it was just like going in blind. And um, and I think like, I. Like anyone, like we use our past experiences to kind of gauge what the future's gonna look like.

Lacey: That's just kind of, again, like your brain wants to know what to expect, and so like when you have the unexpected happen. So at that point it was like didn't wanna do long jump, started having great success in long jump. Okay, well now I'm gonna be the absolute. Best because like, I know I'm athletic, like no regard for my competitors globally.

Lacey: No, no real [00:34:00] understanding too of like, you know, the, just the physical inequities in sport. Um, one of my, my capstone for my masters, um, was a lot of like, is sport even supposed to be fair? Like, you know, we talk that was kind of like as far as disability classes, but in comparison to, um, non-traditional gender categories, transgender people in sport.

Lacey: And then also like, you know, this Michael Phelps conversation, the, the do has so many things that like set him up for success

Lacey: Same with between his fingers or something. Right.

Lacey: point. Yeah, exactly. He got all this stuff like Usain Bolt six four, he's got like incredibly fast turnover. Like there's people that are built for their sport.

Lacey: There's a reason why there's not guys that are five four in the NBA, right? Like there's like differences, right? That make that, that create inequities and like disproportionate fairness in sport. Um. But para was still at that time 'cause it was so new. Um, there was that as far as disability, but also like a lot of people who like could pay to play the [00:35:00] privilege of what it took to be able to like, have access to the equipment, have access to the training, whatever.

Lacey: Um, and then at that same time, right, like early to mid twenties, like my messiest version of like my romantic life, not handling relationships well, not being a good person in relationships. And then, and then my parents were divorcing kind of as I was getting ready for the game. So trying to manage that, the, the ambiguity of making teams, like the way that the US system was like, it was, I was bad, I was bad at managing all that, right?

Lacey: So like, it was going pretty badly. So like, and

Lacey: I knew that it, like I, I was having. Um, unpleasant enough experiences that I was like, maybe I need help. And so that was like when I really started like being intentional about seeing a sports psychologist. And I didn't, I like, didn't even really know what the issue was.

Lacey: I was just like, listen, I know I'm going to track meets and like the official, you know, yells at me once and I'm like, spiraling outta control. And I don't know like where that's coming from and there is a lot of layers to that. [00:36:00] Um, but it took like, I at least had some sort of grasp on the experience, or at least like the, the adverse experiences.

Lacey: And I knew that I was like, all right, less of this, whatever I can do and like that was where the journey came, where it was like being able to have the emotional regulation to handle not just unfortunate things that happen in performance and competitions, which is, I, I dare say every competition, right?

Lacey: Like there's never a perfect setup. Um. And also just like the variables of life that get thrown at you, that you still have to hold alongside, try and perform really, really high. Um, and that, and the, I only got those tools by working with a sports psychologist. Like that was only through those conversations and through some like clinical P-T-S-D-I, I did EMDR eye movement redirection, or desensitization, I believe is the acronym for that.

Lacey: Um, for some cancer stuff, some like early adverse childhood experiences. And, and, and that helped, [00:37:00] that helped a ton because I think without help there was no way I could have sustained it as long as I did. And there was no way that, that it would've been a healthy experience.

Soleil: And can we just dive a little bit deeper into those feelings of from your, your cancer experience and what that was like for you, especially being in the Paralympics. You know, this is probably something that a lot of people who have disabilities of some sort deal with. So what were those feelings that were coming up for you around your cancer during this time?

Lacey: Yeah. You know, I think, like I still have been kind of like working through this with my sports psych through athlete retirement. Um, looking at it like through a different perspective now. So, um, I was diagnosed with a soft tissue cancer. It was called synovial sarcoma at the time. Super rare, probably still super rare.

Lacey: Not really in the cancer world anymore, which is, you know, good. Um, but I, I had a really intense experience. I was put on, um, experimental chemotherapy trials and was working, and [00:38:00] so we amputated above the name. Um, and then I never relapsed, like got fit with a prosthetic. And so like, on the outside, like the, the progress and the trajectory for the most part was like pretty linear.

Lacey: It was pretty good. And, um, at the time I've really been kind of exploring this because like,

Lacey: I'm nine, I'm 10 years old at this time, so like my conceptualization of like death and dying, like from sickness is very abstract at this point. Like I still kind of have the little kid brain where it's like, hmm, well when you get sick you get better, right?

Lacey: Like, we talked about death, but it was, it didn't feel like that was going to be something that ha that was gonna happen to me.

Lacey: And like I was fortunate, right, that like we didn't have to get deeper into that conversation. and so also like while I was on chemo, started doing this like phototherapy with this like volunteer person, which was great.

Lacey: It was really helpful. And then right after I was done, she was like, Hey, what if you started doing like these school talks and school assembly? So this is also where like. lot of [00:39:00] my professional life of like public speaking, kind of becoming a professional person in the disability world came, which afforded me a lot of opportunities.

Lacey: But now, right upon Alec re reflection on that, um, know, I was just a kid. Like it's, I, it's questionable as to whether or not I actually consented to like any of that, right? Like, it's questionable now looking back, like I was so fortunate to be healthy and my family handled a lot of like the hardship with humor, which is like, it's, it's a characteristic I love that I have, and I love that my family has, but it also like diminished a lot of the seriousness, right?

Lacey: It like really diminished a lot of the pain that I think my parents experienced more than I did, but definitely kind of like cut off my own. to feel sad, to feel, you know, to like really kind of go into the dark and process that. Um, that I had to pay a lot of money for years later therapy to do. but also like this idea of like starting to do these [00:40:00] school assemblies. Be like, Lacey, you're doing so good now. You know, like start telling the people. Like, tell, 'cause I've had like a pretty public, um, persona for a really long time about disability and cancer and like amputee specific and sports stuff.

Lacey: And now looking back, you know, I don't know the answer, but I'm like, I don't know if that's ever what I wanted for myself. Right? It was adults telling me, you're okay now. Versus like somebody asking, Hey, are you okay now? And giving, and being intentional right on the space. Giving yourself time and space to reflect and process being like, holy shit, that was really scary.

Lacey: That was really sad. There was a lot of loss there. Um, and so like, yeah, you know, I think. Even 25 years later. I really, it's, I have like this complex, dynamic relationship with that experience. And I think it was the first time I started seeing my sports psychologist, you know, talking about it's what it is, is reactive anxiety, right.

Lacey: That I was experiencing and, and competition. And he's like, you know, do you think you've PTSD from cancer? And immediately I'm like, you have PTSD [00:41:00] from cancer. Like the class came out reactive. Um, and then being like, whoa, maybe there's something there. And I think it, it's, so, it's complicated. 'cause I think disability, especially physical disability, we put so much emphasis on like the physical change and like that is real.

Lacey: Like even now as a retiring athlete, like watching my body change, also being like a woman in her mid thirties, I'm like, whoa, what is, what is all this? Like that isn't. That's an emotional experience, but then also like the complex ways of like actually seeing how it affected my family, how it affected and like ingrained my responses to things like how I respond to other people.

Lacey: Yeah, I'm fine. Like, you know, never, like immediately trying to be like, I'm okay, I'm okay. Versus being like, lemme take a second, lemme take a beat. it's, it's, it's still a journey. I think reflecting on something so big. And I think like, again, like culture at that time was just kind of like, keep it moving.

Lacey: Don't talk about sad stuff. Like [00:42:00] don't, you know, kids just do what their parents say and like, you know, a part of that. I'm not a parent, so I don't really have a lot of wisdom on that. I don't, I think it, I think the cancer experience was harder on my family probably now than it was on me just again because of cognitive capacity.

Lacey: But, um, I think there's a lot of like the emotional experience of, I. Illness, disability, any sort of traumatic event that like, is so complicated underneath the surface and the surface complicated enough, like on top too. Um, and so I think like, yeah, I think there's a lot, especially in the Paralympic landscape.

Lacey: Like we have like a lot of i and sport in general and just like no one makes it this far in life without a little bit of damage. Like we just have a lot of like unprocessed pain I think in a, in adulthood, but definitely in this like para system and, and then like a complex relationship with like something so outward that's bringing benefit.

Lacey: But at the same time, like. [00:43:00] Create has created and continues to perpetuate a lot of pain, not just for the person directly affected, but people in their close ecosystem. And so, yeah, I mean, that's something that I like about Para Too, is like, you know, you're in a, you're in a group of people who know what it's like to like, have gone to the well in life, um, and then, you know, turned, turned, you know, like a, a shit pie outta some shit and, and did well with it.

Lacey: But at the same time, like having to still function in like a society where like, that's still a sad thing or like

Lacey: the only way you it can gain entry into like important spaces is by like continually talking about the saddest thing that's ever happened to you and like that's how you're paying your bills.

Lacey: And so it's, it's complicated. It's so, so complicated.

Soleil: Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. And you mentioned also earlier how a lot of people, and you kind of mentioned it right now, and, and Para are really trying to, you know, like just [00:44:00] focus on being athletic selves, but they need to constantly keep bringing up their stories of their past traumas, stuff like that.

Soleil: Did you ever feel at a point in your Paralympic journey that that was something that you needed to do in order to achieve high success?

Lacey: Oh yeah, girl. Oh yeah. Like one of my main sponsorships was a prosthetic company. Right? And so a lot of it is like lost your leg to

Lacey: Like, I mean, like it is the disability that is what's making me money. Like I went to my 10 year high school reunion and you know, it's like cool to see like, you know, people who got married, who got families like whatever, whatever, like seeing what their jobs are.

Lacey: And I would just make jokes. I'm like, yeah, I'm just exploiting my disability for money. And like, that's pretty much exactly what it was. like. I mean, we see this now I have teammates or like that are still, you know, young children and I'm a grown grandma now, um, that are on social media, right. Doing like the disability education. And the weird thing is like, as far as acquisition of disability, comfort level of like in your own internal [00:45:00] experience of disability, everybody's on different pages, right? And so there's like, there's a conflicting message to like the outward world as well.

Lacey: But at the end of the day, like, you know, people are just trying to pay their bills.

Lacey: Um, and I respect a grind, but at the same time, like, yeah, I think it worked for me for a really long time and it worked for me when I. I was still kind of like having a less deep relationship with that part of myself, and enjoying the community. I think like before para, like I really didn't have a disability community, and then when I did it was great.

Lacey: Like, you know, you're so comfortable.

Lacey: You've, you've gone through something so extreme that you can share with other people.

Lacey: And then now I feel like I have like this new iteration of like a relationship with myself where I'm like, this is a huge part of me. it's also something now that like I wanna protect.

Lacey: Like, it's not just something that I celebrate and I'm proud of, which I am. It's also something that like, not everybody needs to have access to that, um, anymore. And like, it's still [00:46:00] something that like, I feel like it's, I honor that, that there's pain there and like there might always be pain there and that's okay. Um, but it's not something that needs to be broadcasted. Just while somebody's mindlessly scrolling, watching TV and eating chips on the couch, like, that's just not like, I, I wanna respect that part of myself a little bit more.

Soleil: Yeah, totally. And how do you do that? How do you protect that, that piece of yourself?

Lacey: there is, you know what I think like with age and maturity and also just like like with this, this new job, I moved across the country and moved my family across the country. Like the, it's, it's such a different system than what I've had. It's been moving really fast. One being too busy has really been helpful.

Lacey: But do also, like, um, I don't know, like this idea again of like being very intentional. Like, there's a lot of stuff that I've like written out that I'm like, I'm gonna publish this, or like, I'm gonna post this. And then just waiting and like giving it a day. Because sometimes a lot of like

Lacey: stuff, especially with the current political climate [00:47:00] in the United States as far as DEI, like, there's a lot of stuff like Right, you wanna constantly react.

Lacey: React, and I think. Social media has been so unregulated for so long. Like it's kind of become just like this, like the perfect storm of just emotional reactivity and we're addicted to it, right? Because like our brains basically wanna know like how to protect themselves. And so it's like constantly exposing our ourself to really upsetting shit, right?

Lacey: And then like, trying to find a response, right? That we would have to be like, well, I would say this, or I would protect myself this way. Um, and not everything needs to be out there, right? Like, especially with we're seeing the most wild stuff every day there's something new, right? And so now it's like I, I will write something, have it in a draft, and then like wait a day, even a couple hours, and go back and be like. does this need to be sent? What are the consequences of this? Like, do I, what is the response that I am ready for that, or that I can, like, you know, you can, [00:48:00] you'll never know, but what can you anticipate? And like a lot of times it's like, man, that's not that important. Like, it's just

Lacey: important.

Lacey: It's not,

Soleil: And what are your, I'm curious now that we're kind of bringing up this topic, your, your thoughts around the DEI cuts and how is that gonna impact other people who are, um, in disabilities in athletics?

Lacey: yeah, I, you know, I, I dunno the answer to that. To be

Lacey: percent transparent. Like, I, I loved my private practice in Denver. It was, I definitely needed more, right? Than in the disability world. We talk about this concept called a disability tax. So it's like the fact that I have to pay, you know, tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars for my prosthetic leg just to like function in society.

Lacey: Like that's a tax. , but like when I, when I had my private practice, I was living in the state of Colorado. Colorado is a pretty friendly place for like diversity. And so, um, there was a, you can be a self-employed person with a disability and get Medicaid.

Lacey: So I like, I could get my health insurance. 'cause like a [00:49:00] lot of the times when I was an athlete, I was just jumping to get on that health insurance like plan. That was what I was because it wasn't the money baby, it was that we were not getting paid like that. Um, but it was like, I need prosthetics and I will always need prosthetics.

Lacey: And so then like I had a plan like my retire, like retiring out of athlete life into normal life. Like, okay, like I can still do this, I can make money and I can have health insurance. Like very hard to have health insurance when you are just like doing the Instagram thing, whatever. Like we needed a plan.

Lacey: So it was great. Um, health insurance and medicine, the Colorado State Medicaid, and then I. When politics were kind of falling into the place that they were. Like, it wasn't the first thing on my mind, but it's always something on my mind. So I had applied for jobs just for funsies, like as millennials and Gen Z people do nowadays you're just like, let's, just so you know, the job interview process is like kind of moving along.

Lacey: I'm like, uhoh, this is starting to look a little bit more serious. And then kind of comparing it to the greater periphery of the political world happening around us. [00:50:00] I was like, um, it might be smart for me to go private. Like it might be smart for me to get like private care because I'm not sure about like public systems and disability and all that stuff.

Lacey: And like sure enough. We don't need to go too deep into what's going on right now, but like, what's been interesting in sport is I feel like sport is one of the few plays, and not every sport and not every organization, but I think like I have been very fortunate with, with the Timbers specifically.

Lacey: Um, but the MLS also like, seems to really champion diversity. Not great with disability diversity, but of course it's not a disabled sport. So not, it's not the star like it is in para um. I like the idea that I was very open about my disability and like my needs, like, and what was appropriate. also the fact that like they, I had a, I had like six interviews.

Lacey: Like they cared about the competency of the work and like that was something that I never worried about. But, um, they were open to like things [00:51:00] I needed. And I think in sport, it's funny because like even non-disabled sport deals with disability all the time, and injury is just a temporary disability. So like, we have ways of treating people who need, who need it. Um, and, and I was fortunate that they didn't see it as a burden. So I think that's like, I have a lot of privilege though, again, like with some of the other things in my life. Um, but I think like lot of the job that I have now, it's. I have to remind myself when it gets really hard and really busy. 'cause it does like, and it's isolating.

Lacey: I'm the only amputee. Like, actually, you know what, there is a somebody that comes in with our T two people. I just, I just saw, we'll talk about that later. But I am the only like, especially woman amputee, outwardly, publicly disabled person in that organization. But a lot of it is like, there again, there was not a blueprint for me after I retired.

Lacey: I didn't know what the plan was gonna look like, didn't really know what my resources were. I knew I needed to get education. I knew I was smart, I knew I liked sports. I like I had that. [00:52:00] Um, and I had a good network from sports. Um, and so. I, I do it now, like, as, as somebody in a relatively good position of power in a, a male professional sport.

Lacey: Like as also to be somebody that you're like, there is space for us everywhere. Like there is value in the disability experience that translates and that makes you an asset. Um, and then just being unapologetic about it, like I think with cuts to DEI and stuff like that, like you need to kind of match that same like fu energy and be like, try me

Lacey: 'cause I'm Got it. I might need to sit down though, you know, like, I might need to take a seat, but I, I could still do it. So.

Soleil: Oh, that's great. And so you're here now, you're the, the mental performance coach for the Portland Timbers. Um, and earlier you had said, you know, everybody kept telling you, uh, Lacey, you're okay now. You're okay now. So then I just have to ask you, are you okay, [00:53:00] Lacey? How are you doing now?

Lacey: I don't know, but I feel like that's not unique to me right now. Yeah. No, things are going. I am, I am so excited for future of this team, for the future of my career and like seeing how I can continue to grow and give, um, to athletes. Like, I think the one thing out of all of the thread of my experiences was like, it was just so big for me at that time being an athlete.

Lacey: And so like now it became like as my career was kind of winding down, like it's kind of seemed silly to keep jump jumping in sand for money. Like it was just like, know, busting your ass just to make these teams for like negative money. And so I was like, I don't know the, like the music started playing for me, but it still, like, it became more important to be the person that like, almost like I'm caring for my past self.

Lacey: Right. And I feel like we hear that maybe just 'cause my algorithm is just like a lot of, like my friends athletes that are my age, [00:54:00] like a lot of us is like. I want to give,

Lacey: I want to like not only give like what didn't exist for me, but I also like want to honor the people that helped me by being somebody that helps somebody that's coming up.

Lacey: Um, and, and that is why I am like, yeah, it feels good. It feels great and, and you can do it messy. You can do it not knowing everything. Like there's, you don't need to be like completely secure in knowing the outcomes 'cause we won't. But it's again, like the confidence of being like, I have the skills. Like I am ready to help and I'm so excited to see like what comes from this.

Soleil: Oh, that's so good. I'm so happy for you, Lacey. And I have one last question for you. Looking back at your journey, what's one thing that you would say to your younger self? Um.

Lacey: Oh, I think like just be kinder to yourself. I think like that is something that I needed to hear and it took me a long time to get there. [00:55:00] And I think that like we are master manipulators, right? Like you think you're being kind to yourself, but then you catch yourself being like, oh, I look like this in this picture.

Lacey: Or like, oh, like, yeah, I did this, but you know, it, it wasn't the number that I wanted. Or, you know, it's like we're constantly, constantly problems. And again, like our biology is designed to do that. Our brains are designed to do that, but like, it's okay. Like, it's just like, it's okay to like give yourself grace.

Lacey: And that that was probably one of my biggest struggles, um, and continues to be. And it's just, it's a, it's a work in progress and like that's something too that requires grace.

Soleil: Well, thank you so much, Lacey. It has been such a pleasure talking to you and learning about your journey and just hearing about the incredible, tumultuous, tumultuous, beautiful, crazy life that you live. And it's something that I think resonates for a lot of people, you know, deep down, who are also living their most beautiful, tumultuous, crazy, wonderful [00:56:00] life.

Lacey: Thank you so much, Soli.

Speaker 4: Thank you again for listening to this episode of Sweat Strategy and Success. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to follow on your favorite podcast listening platform, give it a rating and share with your friends and family. Make sure to make it back here next Wednesday. See you soon.